Posted on 05/12/2018 4:35:00 PM PDT by pcottraux
Thank you! Even if I don't change anyone's minds, that's at least what I'm going for...
I believe you're already on it.
I have been aware of The Flood narrative in many ancient cultures, but I have yet to see where the Egyptians have a record of it. The Egyptians were pretty far along with their civilization by the time this author claims when The Flood occurred. The Great Pyramid dates to 2650 BC...lots of hieroglyph-ing going on then, too.
I find it odd.
I think it’s important to understand that;
Just because something happened a long time ago, it doesn’t mean it took a long time to happen.
That is why I called out the person flipping the question. The underlying idea, that 8 people of 1 race could result in 3 separate races in only 3000 years time.
Another question.
Noah took at least 2 of each animal on earth to save. If that is the case, why is it that the 2 kangaroos he saved only exist 9000 miles in Australia? Ditto for Koala bears.
Why did the 2 Tasmanian Devils he brought back only exist on that island?
Why is it the Giant Panda is only found 4000 miles away in Western China? I mean, Noah opens the doors to the Ark 7 months after the rain begins, and 5000 years later, all the Giant Pandas in the world have migrated to Western China. Nowhere else.
I could go on and on with Bengal tigers and African elephants and so on.
Mighty neat trick that all these animals walked off the Ark 4500 years ago and and all gathered in one spot on the globe and nowhere else.
OK, last question about the great flood.
The flood covered the entire earth. That’s a lot of water. Now, when all that water covered the earth, it spread salt water to all the fresh water lakes, rivers, and estuaries of the planet.
We know that Noah did not take any fish on the ark. Just land animals.
So somebody please explain to me how all the fresh water fish and amphibians on the planet survived 7 months being subjected to salt water. Fresh water fish cannot survive salt water. There are only a handful of species that can survive in both environments, such as the bull shark and the saltwater crocodile.
I mean, how did all those bass and sturgeon and trout survive the great flood for 7 months living in salt water.
Oh, I know! “With God all things are possible”. So just magically, all of the laws of physics, biology, climatology, and physiology were just “magically” suspended for the 7 months the Ark was afloat and a long period of recovery afterward.
So 8 people produced 3 different races of man in only 3000 years. The Ark had room for 950,000 species of insect along with all the other various species of animals on the planet. They took no birds but the birds magically lived with no land access for food for 7 months. When the Ark finally landed aground, every species of the earth decided to just migrate to special places on the earth rather than fairly widely distributed over the globe. Yet all the freshwater fish on earth magically survived 7 months in salt water.
Got it. It’s magic.
It is my understanding that God wanted to wipe clean the entire population from man and start over again with just Noah. Just 8 people - a righteous man, his wife, and descendants. The ultimate reset.
If the flood was local to the middle east, then it would not have drowned anyone outside the middle east, such as the Chinese. If God’s purpose was to extinguish all man but Noah’s immediate family, then he would not have spared the Chines.
How does Egypt play into the great flood and the Ark.
Egyptian history begins around 3150 BC, or 150 years before the earliest speculated date for the great flood and Noah’s Ark.
So how did all Egyptians drown in the great flood, but continue their rich history right through that period without skipping a beat. Did Noah repopulate Egypt and just by magic, they reverted back to being Egyptian people doing what Egyptian people do with their hundreds of gods. Was their something in the water of Egypt that caused Noah’s single God people to revert back into worshiping myriads of crasy gods?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Ballard didn't play any role in the investigation. Since he was primarily looking for well-preserved ancient vessels +-below the anoxia layer, he agreed to look for remains of human habitations after Ryan's and Pitman's stuff came out.
Similarly, he'd found the Titanic by compleing a covert contract search for the DoD (he found the U.S.S. Thresher and U.S.S. Scorpion, then all involved used the Titanic as a cover for the entire thing). In the Black Sea search, they'd ID'd some search points using sonar, then would visit using their robotic submersible. They found their Dark Ages wreck on the last day -- masts intact and pointing toward the surface.
One general problem with identifying the Black Sea flood with the Noachian Flood is, there have been a lot of different massive floods, they've all had unique causes, and have all happened at different times and in different places.
A more specific problem is that after R&P's Black Sea flood took place, the old shoreline never reemerged.
But hey, I'm not trying to be difficult, I just am difficult. :^)
Not sure if you mentioned the Sumerian King List, but that lists kings before and after the Flood (explicitly) and similiarly to the Old Testament lists huge long lifespans. I suspect the number confusion is due to the unavailability of a lexicon for each city-state's number notation system (the Sumerians didn't have a number system per se, which is odd, because the cuneiform writing system was probably developed out of a need to keep an accounting system), such that the compiler of the list interpreted the use of reign lengths based on his own city's use.
It is couched in unsupportable assumptions when dealing with “origins.”
The fact of the creation of the universe is hung on a logical postulate: “Something” cannot result from “Nothing.”
Science can be a useful tool, as long as one recognizes its impenetrable limitations.
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There has never been any question RE: the flood in the minds of honest logical observers. The strong evidence for it covers the entire globe.
The Ark was found over 20 years ago along with its trail of anchor stones, by the late Ron Wyatt and his sons, in the mountains of Turkey. There is no question that it is a wooden ship, and local cultural evidence indicates that natives of the location have known that it is the Ark for millennia.
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>> “If the flood was local to the middle east, then it would not have drowned anyone outside the middle east, such as the Chinese.” <<
Other than the fact that the Ark is not in the “Middle East,” but in Turkey, your statement is correct.
Why would anyone wish to ignore global evidence, and assume a “local” flood?
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I'm the iconoclast sort, who doesn't necessarily subscribe to any particular school of thought or dogma, religious, scientific, or otherwise. Some things I agree with - many I do not.
“Something” cannot result from “Nothing.”
On that matter, I hew towards the supernatural. Matter, energy, and space cannot create themselves. I believe that they were thought into existence by someone(s).
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>> “ Matter, energy, and space cannot create themselves.” <<
Neither could time!
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There is nothing in the Bible stating that they were all one race. Furthermore some 1500+ years had already passed since Adam and Eve.
Assigning age to anything greater than 6000 years has no scientific basis either. Our historical artifacts and documents don’t support longer ages. Neither does scientific methodology where these things are observable, measured and repeatable.
Been corrected, Black sea. Thx. Like my history accurate.
There’s never been any question that there’s zero physical evidence of a worldwide flood.
No, the Ark has not been found, and it wasn’t found over 20 years ago. There’s a geological formation that is entirely natural, and that’s all that it is. That you say otherwise just shows you can’t be trusted.
Ron Wyatt’s geological formation:
https://wyattmuseum.com/wyatt/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/RONARK-Large-660x330.jpg
In the last ten years an evangelical group from China claimed to have been inside the Ark, even took photos of one alleged interior room, and in a “cattle stall” there was even some 1000s of years old straw Noah’s cattle laid on. It was of course a humbug, apparently built by some PT Barnum wannabee who lived in the area, and he knew an easy mark when he saw it.
http://www.google.com/search?q=Noah%27s+Ark+Ministries+site:freerepublic.com
A friend of mine posted a recent chat on her YouTube channel with an orthodox professor of Biblical studies who doesn't believe the first 11 chapters of Genesis should be taken literally. While he still maintains to be a Christian, he believes that the Garden of Eden, the flood, and the tower of Babel are myths that God used as symbols of his relationship with man.
Regarding Noah's ark, I regard that as a late introduction during one of the edits done to Biblical texts. As someone pointed out earlier, the Egyptian civ including its writing system had been around a while by the purported time of Noah, and the Giza pyramids date from about the time of his supposed flood. Even though the Egyptians must have all died in the flood, someone took over and picked up exactly where the deceased Egyptians left off, right down to the system of writing and their polytheistic religion. The usual way this is (poorly and partially) dealt wiith is to claim, quite ludicrously, that there were no writing systems prior to the flood, and that all inscriptions either postdate the flood, or are hoaxes.
The real event, the one that made such a deep impression on the Hebrews, is not the flood, but The Deluge. The great rain is the common story that survives in folklore and ancient religious works from outsiide the Biblical tradition. And trying to integrate claims that the flood story is universal runs aground, as it were, on the fact that there are not always survivors in the other flood stories (at least one from Precolumbian America), but even when there are, their tale of adversity is always quite different. There's no common righteous man aspect to the tales, at all. What it says is, there were survivors other than Noah and family, and they weren't all in the Middle East, and they didn't necessarily save any animals, and they didn't all build watercraft.
In 1929, legendary British archaeologist Charles Leonard Wooll[e]y made an amazing discovery in the ruins of Ur (the city of Abraham): a massive alluvian silt deposit. The strata ranges in depth from 8 to 11 feet (even a really bad flood will only leave a silt deposit of a few inches at the most).
If that had been anything other than a local event, it would have been discovered at the same level in every Sumerian city, indeed, would be diagnostic for dating purposes. It wasn't found, still hasn't been found. It was just a local flood of a city rather carelessly built in a flood plain. One version of this claims the layer is 334 METERS thick, and of clay. By and large (including in Woolley's acc't) it's silt, was laid down all at once, and is a few meters (between 3 and 4 meters) thick.
Woolley later retracted his identification of the Flood stratum, arguing that the deposit was too old to have resulted from the Biblical Deluge. The Ur-Flood? Uncovering the Deluge | Molly Dewsnap Meinhardt | Biblical Archaeology Review
As far as we have found, that prize goes to the Sumerian King List, which is on display at Oxford’s Ashmolean Museum. Translated by Thorkild Jacobson in 1939 and dating to around the early eighteenth century BC (end of the Isin Dynasty), this clay prism lists two of the first kings of Mesopotamia (Alulim and Alalgar), then casually states “Then the flood swept thereover.” So this is a sign that very far back in Middle Eastern history, the great deluge was considered a historical event.
The king list also attempts to establish a sequential history, where each great city has a turn as capital, as if of a single Sumerian empire. The problem is, the kings of different cities have been found to have been contemporaries, meaning the dynasties were contemporary here and there. Also, there's never been a time when a single human lived 50,000 years -- but if there had been, the dating of the flood becomes a big mess. It also isn't compatible with a 6022 year old Biblical creation.
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