Posted on 01/28/2018 12:32:58 PM PST by GoldenState_Rose
The Red Army's defeat of Nazi German forces on Polish soil in 1944-1945 remains a thorny issue in Russian-Polish relations.
Many Poles viewed the Red Army as an occupation force, not as liberators, as the 1939 Nazi-Soviet pact had carved up Poland between two dictatorships.
Poland updated its "de-communisation" legislation, banning "totalitarian" symbols, which would include Soviet propaganda monuments.
The Russian foreign ministry condemned the new Polish "de-communisation" law as "an outrageous provocation", and warned of unspecified "consequences".
"The USSR paid the highest price to liberate Poland - on that country's soil, in battles with the enemy, more than 600,000 Soviet soldiers and officers died and were buried. Hundreds of thousands of Soviet prisoners of war, who died in Nazi concentration camps, also lie in Polish soil," the ministry said.
The Russian government has warned Poland that it will face sanctions if it removes monuments glorifying the Soviet victory in World War Two.
In 2007, Estonia's removal of a Red Army statue in its capital Tallinn sparked a violent protest by Russian speakers and a massive cyber attack on Estonian official websites. Russian hackers were blamed for that attack.
(Excerpt) Read more at bbc.com ...
I recall an article about the Estonians wanting to exhume remains of Soviet soldiers and ship them back to Russia. While that might not be in play here (yet) that sentiment could arise. I’m opposed to that out of respect for the dead and I believe for the most part soldiers, regardless of who they fight for, don’t really have much choice about where they fight and where they die.
And they ‘moved Poland over’. If you look at a map of pre-WWII Poland and post war Poland, you’ll see that Poland somehow moved west. Essentially the Soviet Union kept the part of Poland they gained in the Hitler-Stalin pact which was what Russia lost in the Treaty of Versailles. In compensation, the Soviets “gave” Poland some of Germany.
US will see similar problems in France once the Islamic majority wants to remove graves of fallen American servicemen.
Agreed. To support your point: he had a lot of the military professionals killed after the war. Why? They represented a threat to his own power.
Feck?
Re: FRANCE -> rewinding a few months to July of this year. The Anniversary of Bastille Day.
President Trump was not expected to attend France’s Bastille Day, which this year will commemorate the 100th anniversary of the United States’ entry into World War I.
But then he learned there would be a military parade.
French President Emmanuel Macron told Trump in a June 27 phone call about the event, which this year will feature U.S. and French troops marching through the historic streets near the Arc de Triomphe, fighter jets cutting through the skies above, and flags, horses and military equipment on display — the sort of spectacle that Trump wanted to stage at his own inauguration in January.
“It’s the 100th anniversary of the American entry into World War I — it’s a beautiful symbol,” François Heisbourg, a former French national security adviser under presidents Nicolas Sarkozy and François Hollande, said in an interview. “It’s also a reminder to Trump and to those in France that there’s a century of transatlantic history here, and that the not-so-subliminal history is quite strong.”
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-loves-a-military-parade--its-one-reason-hes-heading-to-paris/2017/07/12/ccd46894-66df-11e7-8eb5-cbccc2e7bfbf_story.html?utm_term=.eee338d37db5
Fast forward to now:
In return, President Macron will be President Trump's first official guest to a State Dinner at the White House.
France's Macron to Be Guest at Trump's First State Dinner
https://www.newsmax.com/politics/emmanuel-macron-donald-trump-state-dinner/2018/01/24/id/839264/
Stalin had little care for the lives of his soldiers, and he was far more reckless.
It’s to America/Britain/Canada’s credit that not as many lives were lost on our side.
Send them back to Russia for safekeeping.
Estonia has a lot of Russians. One city on the border is 90% Russian. It’s only matter of time until Russia resumes defacto control there at the ballot box, IMO.
Or else ?
There are very few Russians in Poland, or very few that would admit to it.
You very likely will get your ass kicked in Warsaw if someone hears you speaking Russian.
Now Russian foreign ministry officials have warned of "asymmetric measures" if Poland removes Soviet war monuments.
Russia could refuse visas for Polish officials or downgrade trade relations.
- BBC
ethnic Russians in Estonia also appreciate their E.U. perks and living standards and scoff at the prospect of moving back over the border - a conundrum indeed.
There are very few Russians in Poland, or very few that would admit to it.
Right. But Estonia and Latvia are small countries with a lot of Russians. In the end it will be about geography. Poland is next to Germany. Estonia and Latvia are next to 150 million Russians.
It is interesting that Vladimir Putin’s main argument justifying the seizure of the Crimean territory, and Russia’s participation in the conflict in the Ukraine in general, is that there was a regime change in the Ukraine that put an illegal political group into power, when the same can be said about Russia, where the current regime is a direct descendant of the Bolshevik terror group that obtained its power illegally.
There was never an official renunciation of the actions of the communist regime and its emblems; no declaration that this regime’s rule was illegal; no criminal indictment, and no ban on its emblems and symbols. This is exactly why we have conflicts with the Baltic nations, Poland, and other countries from the former “Communist bloc.” And it is also why our neighboring countries (Ukraine, the Baltics, and others) have such antagonism towards modern Russia and the Russian language, since Russian is directly associated with a regime that occupied not only Russia, but also a number of Eastern European countries after World War II.
It stands to reason that such an attitude towards the Russian language should be ameliorated, as Germany did in its time, spending enormous amounts of money and efforts to separate “everything German” from “everything fascist.” But the fact is Russia never did that work because our current regime is still a descendant of Stalin’s – a regime that openly entered into a dialogue with Hitler’s government, supported the actions of the fascists in other countries, and even participated in military campaigns, invading, for example, Poland in 1939, and it turns out that that regime to this day, in essence, remains in power. If in the late 1990s and early 2000s the regime somehow hid and suppressed this allegiance, then today it is once again openly shown.
I am a citizen of Russia, I consider Russia my motherland and my home. A home where, many years ago, armed people broke in and began to loot, murder, rape, destroy churches, eliminate the faith of a people in the beginnings of spiritual freedom, and now these criminals, in essence, still remain in power.
Ivan Vyrypaev
https://michelleort.wordpress.com/2017/08/29/an-open-letter-from-the-screenwriter-and-director-ivan-vyrypaev-in-support-of-kirill-serebrennikov/
“There are very few Russians in Poland, or very few that would admit to it.”
There was a guy whose house was right on the Russia/Poland border. Both countries argued for years about whether the house was in Poland or Russia. Finally, the politicians agreed they would let the owner of the house decide. A delegation of politicians from both countries visited him and asked which country he preferred. He said Poland. The Russians asked “Why”. He replied he didn’t think he could survive the Russian winters.
In the end it’s also about why Russians in the Baltic countries choose to STAY there and why some Russians fed-up with the Putin conditions contemplate MOVING there.
Because they want European freedoms, perks, economic opportunities (especially in the field of technology) and living standards.
The left wing in Estonia is aligned with the Russian speaking voting block. Similar to Democrats and Mexicans here. It’s only a matter of time. Economically and culturally the big market in that part of the world is Russia. It’s not even close. Nobody in Spain wants to buy Estonian consumer products, food, etc. Millions of people in St. Pete and Moscow do. Eventually that will have a political outcome, IMO.
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