Fox News Program Host: “Did You Ever See a Long-Form?”

The Post & Email ^ | 1/8/2018 | Sharon Rondeau

[Elderberry]

On Saturday evening’s edition of FNC’s “Justice with Judge Jeanine,” former Westchester County, NY District Attorney and judge Jeanine Pirro asked one of her guests whether or not he had “ever seen a ‘long-form,'” undoubtedly referring to the “long-form birth certificate” of former White House occupant Barack Hussein Obama.

Pirro’s two guests for the segment, former Secret Service agent and former Republican Maryland congressional candidate Dan Bongino and former Bill Clinton staffer and current Democratic strategist David Goodfriend, were discussing the captioned “economic successes” of Trump’s first year in office when Goodfriend attempted to make the case that President Trump was “bonkers” for claiming that his Oval Office predecessor “was never a citizen.”

Article II, Section 1, clause 5 of the Constitution requires that the president be a “natural born Citizen,” which most Americans interpret to mean, at a minimum, “born in the United States.” During Obama’s 2007-2008 presidential campaign, credible news reports stated his birthplace as Indonesia and Kenya, some of which were later altered to say that Obama was “born in Hawaii,” as he claims.

At 5:19 in the video clip from the show, Pirro vehemently but possibly unwittingly opened the line of conversation by telling Goodfriend that she thought it was “bonkers” that Obama had called Trump a “quasi-Adolph Hitler” in a speech in Chicago last month.

At 5:28, Goodfriend responded, “It’s almost as ‘bonkers’ as Donald Trump saying that Obama was never a citizen,” referencing Trump’s 2011 public demands for the Obama White House to release his “long-form,” or more detailed, birth certificate to prove his eligibility to serve as president and re-seek the office in 2012.

As has often been the case, Goodfriend conflated the term “citizen” with “natural born Citizen,” a distinction set forth in the Constitution only for the nation’s chief executive.

[butterdezillion]

BTW, the report on that conference where Onaka said that Obama’s BC is on a non-existent page is supposed to be found at https://publications.iadb.org/bitstream/handle/11319/7125/International_Identity_Management_Conference_Proceedings.pdf?sequence=4&isAllowed=y but when I go there it says, “This site can’t be reached.”

To see it now you have to download it from https://publications.iadb.org/handle/11319/7125 . It was saved on the internet archive on Aug 13, 2015 (see https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://publications.iadb.org/handle/11319/7125 ). I have it saved, in case it disappears, as it seems they might be working on right now...

On page 32 it says:

Dr. Onaka illustrated the business processes of
birth registry using the example of President
Obama’s birth certificate, which was a point of
controversy during the electoral campaign leading
to the President’s election in 2008. He added
that the business processes and the laws that
govern birth registration in Hawaii are standard
in all 50 states of the United States.
He explained that the starting point of an identity
is the birth certificate. A unique number is
given to every birth. The President’s birth certificate
can be found in Volume 10, on page 641.

On page 35 Onaka clarified that he was using Obama’s online image as the source for his comments - not the official records:

A question was asked about the existence of laws
safeguarding the protection of personal data in
the United States, and why there is no unique
ID number that could be used for civic participation
purposes, such as voting. The response
was that the United States has strict privacy and
confidentiality rules that govern personal identity
and birth and death records. Because of the
controversy that arose with regard to the eligibility
of the President of the United States and
where he was born, the information presented
here was obtained from the White House website
on which the President publicly disclosed his
birth record. It is unlawful to disclose this information
unless the individual chooses to do so.

[Daniel Ramsey]

Is Oprah a NBC?

[MMaschin]

You need to submit a long form birth certificate with a passport application.

Passport Birth Certificate requirements

[calenel]

'Natural-born citizen' simply means being a citizen at birth. The distinction of 'native born' is based on an incomplete reading of Blackstone, which in your case appears to be deliberate. The terms are used interchangeably in Blackstone (reread chapter 10). If the founders wanted a special, mystical understanding of the phrase 'natural-born' they would have provided one rather than hope people didn't just assume the dictionary definition.

If, as you claim, the Founders wanted to prevent 'any foreign influence on the Presidency', why then did they require a candidate to have only lived in the US 14 years, which for a candidate meeting the minimum age requirement would be only 40% of their life? Since the average age at which a President is elected is more than 55 years, that means that on average our former Presidents needed to only reside in the US for about 25% of their lives. Washington, himself, was 57 when he assumed office. He could have spent 43 years outside the US being 'foreign-influenced' and still have been eligible. Further, there is no 'both parents' requirement. Citizenship passed through the father, unless he was unknown, at the time of the writing of the Constitution and the status of the mother was irrelevant. A wife acquired the citizenship of her husband for all intents and purposes. Although the genders are treated equally in this regard now, only one citizen parent is required to confer citizenship at birth.

Your logic is badly broken and does not withstand objective scrutiny.

If Obama was born in Hawaii (or elsewhere in the US), he is a natural-born citizen. If he was born in a foreign country, then he is not. This is due to the very specific language in the Immigration and Nationality Act of June 27, 1952 regarding residency requirements for the mother of a child of an alien father. If born in the US he is a citizen by birth, and if born elsewhere, not a citizen at all.

[LibertyJihad]

You have correctly identified the real issue. Obama was born in Hawaii - there are contemporaneous birth announcements from the Honolulu newspaper. He, however, used his foreign sounding name and father’s heritage to claim he was a foreign student. He, like Elizabeth Warren, lied to game the affirmative action system and reap the benefits of claiming special status. The lie persisted when he “wrote” his first book.

[katana]

In the context of the late 18th century, the main purpose of the clause was to prevent any future attempt to impose or invite a foreign born ruler to the presidency. Such was very common practice in Europe, for political and religious (really the same thing) reasons, for centuries. They didn’t want a William of Orange, a George I, or (as later happened in Mexico), a Maximilian brought in to return America to the “proven” system of monarchy. But it would and should have also, except for a treasonous Democratic Party and willfully blind press, kept out the affirmative action crypto-Muslim/Marxist foreign incompetent we suffered under for eight long years.

[Agamemnon]

I find it amazing that people who bring up this topic, seem to always fail to mention, that the long form birth certificate, released by the White House, has actually been examined by a court certified document examiner.

Might want to actually read your link before you post next time. A copy of a PDF was examined, not "the long form birth certificate, released by the White House" as you have made it out to be.

"I can say this: My observations, findings, comments and/or opinions regarding the birth certificate are based solely on the PDF file Mr. Zullo provided for my examination and analysis. I was informed the COLB I reviewed is the exact document released by the White House, and I performed my examination under the assumption that it is. However, I have no firsthand knowledge that it is in fact the actual document obtained from the State of Hawaii Department of Health or if it is a true and accurate representation thereof. Absent the Department of Health’s willingness to allow an examination of the original, there is no way to prove if the document I examined is a proper duplicate of same."

FReegards!

[Ann Archy]

Is all that TRUE??? We gave all that money to Kenya and Obama’s FOUNDATION?? WTH?

[outpostinmass2]

Ted Cruz is not a natural born U.S. citizen.

[outpostinmass2]

Ann Dunham was born in November 1942.
Barack Obama was born in August 1961.

His mother was just shy of her 19th birthday or 18 years old at the time of his birth,

[MMaschin]

The only thing the WH released was a PDF!!! That is what was examined!!!

[RideForever]

Although the genders are treated equally in this regard now, only one citizen parent is required to confer citizenship at birth.
_______________________________________

SCOTUS ruling (Minor v Happersett) used the plural of ‘parent’ in defining natural born citizen. And there is a back story of Pres. Garfield appointing a USSC justice who later ruled on Garfield’s status as natural born citizen who had only 1 citizen parent at his birth, although his father became naturalized after he was born. And there was no polygamy involved as in Obama’s case. Here’s the link -
http://www.fourwinds10.com/siterun_data/government/us_constitution/news.php?q=1308252582

[MMaschin]

Here is a 'copy' of the PDF released by the Obama White House - Obama LFBC

It's the only thing released, it's what Reed Hayes examined, and it's what Hayes was talking about when he said

In short, there are indications that the Obama Certificate of Live Birth released by the White House in April 2011 may be a manufactured document or perhaps even an outright forgery. 

[imardmd1]

Obama Sr isn’t his dad. Frank Marshall Davis is more likely the one.

And his spiritual father the Communist Party is what I believe.

[Manly Warrior]

“If, as you claim, the Founders wanted to prevent ‘any foreign influence on the Presidency’, why then did they require a candidate to have only lived in the US 14 years, which for a candidate meeting the minimum age requirement would be only 40% of their life? Since the average age at which a President is elected is more than 55 years, that means that on average our former Presidents needed to only reside in the US for about 25% of their lives. Washington, himself, was 57 when he assumed office. He could have spent 43 years outside the US being ‘foreign-influenced’ and still have been eligible.”

All of the Founders indeed were not US citizens at the Founding, rather, British subjects. President Washington at 57 years of age lived almost all of his life as other than a US citizen. No?

The rest of your comment is without merit as justified by the above fact. All presidents since about 1840 or so ought to have been born of US citizen parents, either on US Soil or abroad on government business, with a few notable exceptions from history. This question ( US parentage of other than US citizenship at time of birth) was never resolved since President Arthur’s time, I think.

If there is no difference between native born and Natural born, then why would such learned and astute men include both terms in the constitution? I think they meant something by it, regardless.

Romney, Cruz etc, ought to be subject to strict scrutiny. On the other hand, folks like McCain, etc who were born overseas to US parents serving on government duty ( like my son too) indeed meet the Natural born requirement even if not “native” born via parentage and circumstance of duty. We ught ot agree that if Joe and Mary vacation to Canada and Billy comes early, he is not native nor natural born, but a US (and perhaps able to claim Canadian)citizen by laws of both nations.

What I do not comprehend is why folks pretend that an illegal who has a baby s a US citizen per the 14th ( written for freed slaves and their children, not illegal aliens), they are not under the “jurisdiction” ( cannot be compelled to fight in ur armed forces, nor vote etc) of the US, rather , but are ( ought to be anyway) subject to criminal law by their mere (illegal) presence).

Citizenship and the rule of law matters, that’s why there are laws....

[calenel]

All of the Founders indeed were not US citizens at the Founding, rather, British subjects. President Washington at 57 years of age lived almost all of his life as other than a US citizen. No?

And the Founders compensated for that with "or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution" which applies only to citizenship status, and NOT to residency, your attempt to conflate the two notwithstanding.

The rest of your comment is without merit as justified by the above fact.

Except it is not a fact, it is an attempt to obfuscate in order to avoid addressing points that refute the apocryphal 'born here of two citizen parents' requirement.

If there is no difference between native born and Natural born, then why would such learned and astute men include both terms in the constitution?

Well, for one, it is not unusual for people to use synonyms. We even have a word for that: synonym. And two, perhaps more importantly, they never use the term 'native born' in the Constitution, so the rest of whose argument is without merit?

Citizenship and the rule of law matters, that’s why there are laws and not just made-up bull crap because some people don't like the way an election turned out.

I provided legitimate arguments that clearly refute the 'born here of two citizen parents' claim. If you cannot legitimately refute those arguments in turn then you should perhaps consider that they are valid. You don't get to dismiss them out of hand, and certainly not on the basis of false claims of content in a document that you apparently have not read.

[calenel]

From your posted link: The terms “natives” and “natural born citizens” are obviously English terms; used to render the idea convyed [sic] by the French phrase “les naturels, ou indigenes”: but both refered [sic] to the same category of citizen: one born in the country, of parents who were citizens of that country.

Which, incidentally, supports my assertion that the terms 'native born' and 'natural born' are used interchangeably (this time in Vattel).

However, to address your claim of multiple parents, in every case cited at the link you provided, the use of 'parents' refers to multiple children's parents and there is no indication that both parents of each individual are meant. And only in the blogger's own interpretation is the construction of multiple parents of an individual; never in the actual text cited to support the blogger's claims.

Do you believe that all children spring from the same two parents? Or is it possible that they are talking about multiple citizenship-conferring individuals that might never have met, never mind procreated together?

[Agamemnon]

The only thing the WH released was a PDF!!! That is what was examined!!!

Not arguing with you on that point, just the inaccuracy of saying that any examiner has seen the actual long-form BC.

The examiner as I quoted from your link qualified his statement to make that distinction.

FReegards!

[Seizethecarp]

Ping to Judge Jeanine bringing up the fake long-form on her show!

Thanks Elderberry!

On Saturday evening’s edition of FNC’s “Justice with Judge Jeanine,” former Westchester County, NY District Attorney and judge Jeanine Pirro asked one of her guests whether or not he had “ever seen a ‘long-form,’” undoubtedly referring to the “long-form birth certificate” of former White House occupant Barack Hussein Obama.

[Ouderkirk]

Now you have me thinking and I am going to have to dig for this....I remember something about the law in place at the time that you had to be a certain age or be past a certain age by x number of years, to confer citizenship to your child born of a foreign national.

There was something odd that included Barky with regards to his mother’s ability to confer citizenship on her bastard offspring. I just don’t recall it exactly.

It is my opinion that Barky was born in Kenya. Shortly after his (ahem) birth Barky Sr. beat the crap out of Stanley Ann, and Stanley Ann’s parents arranged to have her flown home and got the kid Hawaiian paperwork.

The SSN he’s used and all of that stuff flows out of that “paperwork” but couldn’t prove his bona fides to the satisfaction of the Social Security Admin and Selective Service.