Posted on 08/07/2017 9:36:59 AM PDT by re_tail20
U.S. Army weapon officials just opened a competition for a new 7.62mm Interim Service Combat Rifle to arm infantry units with a weapon potent enough to penetrate enemy body armor.
"The Army has identified a potential gap in the capability of ground forces and infantry to penetrate body armor using existing ammunition. To address this operational need, the Army is looking for an Interim Combat Service Rifle (ICSR) that is capable of defeating emerging threats," according to an Aug. 4 solicitation posted on FedBizOpps.gov.
The service plans to initially award up to eight contracts, procuring seven types of weapons from each gunmaker for test and evaluation purposes. Once the review is concluded, the service "may award a single follow-on Federal Acquisition Regulation (FAR) based contract for the production of up to 50,000 weapons," the solicitation states.
"The Government has a requirement to acquire a commercial 7.62mm ICSR to field with the M80A1 Enhanced Performance Round (EPR) to engage and defeat protected and unprotected threats," the solicitation states. "The ultimate objective of the program is to acquire and field a 7.62mm ICSR that will increase soldier lethality."
The opening of the competition comes just over two months after Army's Chief of Staff Gen. Mark Milley revealed to Congress that the M4 Carbine's M855A1 Enhanced Performance Round cannot penetrate modern enemy body armor plates similar to the U.S. military-issue rifle plates such as the Enhanced Small Arms Protective Insert, or ESAPI.
This past spring, Vice Chief of Staff Gen. Daniel Allyn released a directed requirement for a new 7.62mm rifle designed for combat units, prompting Army weapons officials to write a formal requirement.
The presence of a 7.62mm rifle in Army infantry squads is nothing new. Since 2009, the Army's squad designated marksman rifle has been the Enhanced Battle Rifle, or EBR,...
(Excerpt) Read more at military.com ...
Glad someone in this thread mentioned the fact that the 7.62 is already tooled up by major suppliers. Tweaking the projectile if needed is easy if all the production tooling is in place.
No one other than exceedingly stationary snipers work out beyond 6-700 yards, and they already have specialized ammo. This is all about tactical deployment.
I prefer the 45 auto because it is a great round and easy to reload, but I agree, it’s time in the military is over, especially as the US Army is looking at using hollow points in combat negating much of the superior aspects of the 45.
If the military were to look at changing pistol calibers I would recommend something that would significantly increase muzzle energy like the 10mm or be more likely to defeat body armor such as the 5.7, but realistically, sticking with the 9mm is most practical.
I had the last M-14 in the 1st Marine Division in 1967. I was able to keep mine because I was an artillery scout and while the grunts were stuck with M-16s and I could get away with keeping it.
That was a wonderful rifle and nothing was beyond its reach. In full-A it could cut through any target and when you hit, they stayed down.
When I finally did get hit myself, my lieutenant crawled up to where I was and said “I’m really sorry that you’re hurt, but can I have your rifle?”.
Energy = MV**2. Reducing mass and increasing velocity will deliver more energy. Lightweight bullets, however, lose their velocity and accuracy at longer ranges. If the goal is simply the penetration of body armor, here’s 2 calibers that are designed and proven to penetrate body armor:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_5.7×28mm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HK_4.6×30mm
Phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range. The civilians only get the semi-auto version but I’m good with that.
The bipod is the key. Offhand or hip is was all over. Bipod was quite stable, unsure of the mechanics of that.
Still have my FN FAL. It’s a tack driver. One shot per customer.
Wow, Can you even hear a watch or phone alarm?
You would be surprised how easily a 7.62-firing weapon can be controlled. Ask anyone who carried the M60- like me. In some situations and after solid training, I sometimes felt like I was firing a belt-fed sniper rifle. It was freakin’ awesome.
The other key was a smooth trigger letoff: a good gunner could fire two-three round bursts with practice.
The bipod I used was the early M-16 "clothes pin" bipod clamped to my gas cylinder. It was light and easy to attach/detach. Never used that weighty monster that was designed for the M-14.
M-14 was/is a fine rifle. In basic, I didn’t do so well with it as I only weighed about 120 lbs. I did much better when I qualified with the M-16 prior to going to Vietnam. If a couple of pounds could be shaved off the M-14 and maybe shrink it down just a bit in size? Just a good, uncomplicated, mud-eater that always works regardless of conditions...oh, the Russians make one like that, don’t they?
Smooth, steady, accurate and like you said, easy to use on point targets.
I was assigned to protect a Sparrowhawk insert by covering the routes in and out of the treeline where the action was going on. I spotted some old lady carrying a pair of purple bags on a stick over her shoulder heading for the enemy location, so not wanting to hit an old lady, I fired a short burst about 20m ahead of her on the trail. She stopped short, thought about it, and then started chugging forward again.
I fired another burst, this time closer and she dropped the bags and took off back where she came from.
I was a punk kid back then, so naturally I decided to take a quick shot at those bags she dropped and WHAM! those bags detonated big time.
She was carrying grenades or mortar rounds, I guess.
Agreed. The Army screwed up when they adopted the 7.62 round the first time. You’ll probably never convince them of that though let alone convince them to correct the mistake.
Based on your extensive combat experience, I assume?
I think a 10mm (or .40 S&W ), 357 Sig or 9 super would be a good choice.
I have carrried .380 through 44 magnum and .45 Colt(cowboy rounds but loaded way up there). Just curious but how many sand box guys have vests? The Germans in trenches in WW 1 tried to say the .45 ACP was an execution weapon and shouldn’t be allowed in military combat.
A massive 230 grain slug at 800/900 fps knocks things down. A supersonic 120 grain fmj 9mm won’t go through a good vest. The seals I’m told use the 147 sub sonics they also like .45 ACP. The 9mm was the NATO round. It was a mistake to go there. Then we let women and midgets like “Chelsea” Manning in the military and that’s why we have to have 9mm.
I like the 9mm. It makes a good compact pocket pistol. But if you’re going to carry a full size pistol......put a full sized round into it.
Shoot the bad guys between the eyes. Problem solved.
That would require marksmanship. If I am not mistakes, the army has not taught that for quite some time now.
Read in American Rifleman recently that they are seeing this mistake in lack of training after poor performance of troops in Afghanistan. Probably take a long time to correct.
I know it’s pipe dream but I like the 6.5 Grendel. I’m in the process of making a 6.5 AR Gas Piston. Like most rifles I have, I’m confident it will out shoot my marksmanship capability.
“.30 caliber is a sentimental choice that just isn’t necessary anymore in a main battle rifle. I would go with 6.8 SPC or 6.5 Grendell. Lots of good bullets that are heavy for caliber which means good penetration. Once again, the military looks backward for inspiration instead of forward. Very disappointing. 6.8 SPC is just perfect for a combat round.”
An added advantage of the 6.5 Grendel is that it was specifically made to fire using the M16/M4 magwell and magazines, which would mean that all that Uncle would have to buy would be 50,000 uppers and associated spare parts. Of course, better to by 50,000 full rifles and spares, but if you’re looking for cost savings, there you go. No new training necessary - if you are competent with the M4, then you can shoot a 6.5 Grendel.
Not so well on my right ear. Left is better though and enough to get by. There is a certain pitch that is just dead to me though.
Wife has a different opinion.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.