Posted on 05/14/2017 8:30:57 AM PDT by hardspunned
I have been aware of the serious effect an EMP attack would have on our country for some time. I recently read a most terrifying book, One Second After, and am now motivated to better prepare my family for this possibility. My question regards the viability of a 1987 Toyota 4x4 truck with a 22r carbureted engine. I have been told there is a vulnerable component in the non electronic ignition system. My understanding was that old coil, distributor system was safe.
I have the opportunity to purchase this vehicle and would like to be sure that it can be counted on if needed.
Thank you. I do not take it personally. In fact, it’s important to “have it out” on this topic.
I have provided sourced research documents to CT before which directly contradicts the position that he has staked out on this topic. He either ignored what they said or didn’t read them. Google “Conrad Longmire” and his research - and follow some of those paths.
I respect the queries of folks on threads like these and always attempt to educate.
Invest in a couple good mountain bikes. They will work and get through clogged streets when nothing else can.
Film cameras and vacuum tube based electronics.
A wood gasifier would be a good solution also.
Hang a metal chain from the body of your car to the ground. It becomes a farady cage. An aluminum sided house would also ground a lot of energy. A vacuum tube device would not be affected.
“EMP is reality and can be defended against.”
A reasonable statement!
“’Hang a metal chain from the body of your car to the ground. It becomes a farady cage. An aluminum sided house would also ground a lot of energy. A vacuum tube device would not be affected.”
It’s a lot more complicated than that.
Grounding doesn’t make or break a faraday cage. RF grounding is very different than an electrical safety ground - and in some cases, an electrical safety ground wire can make your EMP vulnerability worse, not better.
Yes, I am interested
Ok.... look at this link. Start with page 1 - Introduction.
http://ece-research.unm.edu/summa/notes/TheoreticalPDFs/TN368.pdf
I’ve sent this via private messaging to several folks already. I have sent this previously to some of the skeptics on this thread, imploring them to read it. They obviously didn’t
The author of this paper is the guy who figured it all out for the US. If someone wants to argue with the paper - the equations are there to do so.
oops...sorry I thought you were interested in the source documents for EMP - I realized that you were asking for follow-up on why individual components are not as vulnerable.
EMP energy is spread out in frequency from about 10kHz to 1000MHz.
At 1000MHz, the wavelength is roughly 12 inches. So a half or a quarter wavelength (about 4 inches) would absorb energy efficiently around 1000MHz. Anything smaller, would be inefficient at absorbing energy at 1000MHz.
So your iphone is probably safe - if it’s not charging.
At 10kHz, the wavelength is approximately 19 miles. So at a quarter wavelength, just call it 5 miles you would have an efficient absorber of energy at 10kHz
Now, an EMP has most of it’s energy below about 300MHz - so you might be able to assume that a fairly robust piece of electronics, as long as it (and its conductors) was smaller than 10 inches might have a fair chance of weathering an EMP.
The problem is, you can’t predict where EMP fields are going to come from. You can’t know how efficient your piece of equipment or spare part will be in absorbing EMP energy. It’s entirely possible that you could place two identical parts on a table, but vary their orientation by 90 degrees - and one would be fine, the other junk after an EMP.
So for smaller parts - just give them a little extra help - put them in a mylar bag - at high frequencies they do an OK job of shielding. At low frequencies, they aren’t as good, but your part is so small that it’s not going to absorb much low-frequency energy.
If you want to be extra prudent, put them in a faraday cage of some sort.
The point is that if something is very critical to you take that into account when providing protection for it.
I hope this explanation helps.
I think most cars that are parked would survive an emp...I think almost all cars in parking garages would survive...same goes for cars in Morton Buildings.
At the end of the day, an emp attack would be alot like a lightning strike - alot of stuff would be fried, but most stuff will survive it...with no rhyme or reason as to why. Rather than buy an 87 truck, I’d just buy a metal garage.
Thanks for your advice. I’m thinking I will buy the truck along with spare ignition components which I will protect in a faraday cage. I can use the vehicle and hope and pray it’s EMP survivability is never tested.
always have a plan B
“The operative idea is home survival prep and shelter in place.”
The fun begins if people are working and shopping and this occurs.
correct - decent used mountain bikes can be had for $100-50. Add on heavy duty rear rack and useful fenders/mudflaps and a family of 4 is set for transportation for less than $800.
A 50 mile trip is only 4-5 hours on a mountain bike on dirt roads and trails. Very doable and safer than trying a interstate.
it’s the simple easy things that most people miss.
Good plan...
I concur. Thank your for the informative post fuente.
And, hardspunned, don’t listen to the naysayers. There is plenty of concern, even among members of our government, about EMP. Truth is, we just don’t know what will happen, but we can look at what’s been done in the past and be concerned - Starfish Prime, being one, and even further back, the Carrington Event, which was the result of a Solar discharge in 1859. You probably know about these already. I say it’s better to be prepared.
Why some people even feel it necessary to get on these threads just to mock other freepers and their questions is beyond me.
A bolt of lightning makes about as much as EMP as what leaks out of a microwave oven. The EMP from the USSR’s 1961 Tsar Bomba blast bent the magnetic field OF THE ENTIRE PLANET. The comparison is absurd.
Damage from EMP is mostly confined to the blast area. That’s because EMP from an atomic blast is the result of gamma rays emitted by the fission process (or fusion, depending). And gamma rays diffuse pretty rapidly in an atmosphere as dense as ours.
Plus, there’s the inverse square law, which governs the propagation of all electro-magnetic energy, including gamma rays. EMP strength diminishes at the inverse of the square of the change in distance, so an object that’s twice as far away will receive only one-fourth as much energy:
( 1x * 1/(2^2) = 0.25x ).
Three times as far away receives only one-ninth as much EMP:
( 1x * 1/(3^2) = 0.11x ).
The gamma radiation (and hence the EMP) will diminish at the sum of the two, the atmospheric diffusion and the inverse square law. Plus, EMP is not a “homogeneous” effect. Its distribution naturally tends to the erratic.
So if your barn survives the nuclear blast, the vehicles inside it also stand a fair chance of remaining operational. Not because the barn protected them from the EMP but because the barn’s survival is an indication of its distance from the blast.
All of the city of Hiroshima’s electrical power plants were on the perimeter of the city. Ground Zero was at city center. All the damage sustained by the power plants was blast damage, and very little of that. After the bomb, power production continued pretty much normally. But those facilities would have had far less solid state equipment than today. And it’s difficult to assess how much EMP damage there was nearer to Ground Zero because thermal and blast damage obliterated much of the evidence.
And just because an electronic device isn’t plugged in at the moment of the blast won’t necessarily protect it from EMP. An electric generator produces current by moving a magnetic field in relation to a conductive material (or vice-versa). In the same way, EMP also causes a warping of the earth’s magnetic field which can induce an electric current whenever it strikes a conductive material. Anything with a solid state component, an integrated circuit or a silicon chip could be vulnerable. They started putting capacitors in cars in about 1910, so I have no doubt but that a 1987 Toyota would be vulnerable ...presuming it’s close enough to the blast, and that it’s OE Faraday cage doesn’t protect it.
The effect will be magnified as it travels across the power grid or down an antenna but it doesn’t much matter whether a solid state device is plugged in or turned on because EMP brings its own electricity to the party.
Automobiles in general should fare pretty well because they carry their own Faraday cage around with them. So after they drop the big one, it would suck to own a Corvette. Anything built before they introduced capacitor discharge ignition (CDI) just won’t give a hoot.
History often leaves out the fact that the Enola Gay and Bockscar were accompanied by a number of support aircraft on their atomic bombing missions, including one carrying a camera crew, another carrying scientific instrumentation and several weather observation planes. Several of them flew on both missions, including the Enola Gay, which served as a weather observation plane on the Nagasaki mission. So it’s pretty clear that none of these airplanes were disabled by their exposure to the atomic blast(s). Which is a pretty good advertisement for the magneto ignition system, if you’re a Prepper. Then again, the bombers themselves were closest to the explosions, and they both would have been almost seven miles away at the instant of detonation.
So the best strategy is to be elsewhere when the bomb goes off.
“A bolt of lightning makes about as much as EMP as what leaks out of a microwave oven”
No sir.
“Damage from EMP is mostly confined to the blast area. “
No sir.
“Plus, there’s the inverse square law, which governs the propagation of all electro-magnetic energy”
Yes, but not in the “near field” - (I can explain this if you want) - in the near field - 1/r, not 1/r^2 is operative.
” Plus, EMP is not a “homogeneous” effect. Its distribution naturally tends to the erratic.”
No sir.
” barn’s survival is an indication of its distance from the blast.”
No sir.....incidentally, from a high altitude nuclear blast (>30km in altitude) there will be no significant blast effects on the ground.
“And just because an electronic device isn’t plugged in at the moment of the blast won’t necessarily protect it from EMP”
Yes!
“EMP also causes a warping of the earth’s magnetic field”
You’re confusing the “E3” effect from the “E1” effect of an EMP. This thread refers to the “E1” aspects for the most part.
Overall on this post you seem to be confusing a “Source Region” EMP (one that is near a ground or close-to-ground burst with a High-Altitude EMP.)
“So the best strategy is to be elsewhere when the bomb goes off.”
Hard to argue with this point!
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