Posted on 03/04/2017 10:08:21 PM PST by MtnClimber
Neuroskeptic « Why Scientists Shouldn’t Replicate Their Own Work Brain Activity At The Moment of Death By Neuroskeptic | March 3, 2017 2:48 pm 203 What happens in the brain when we die?
Canadian researchers Loretta Norton and colleagues of the University of Western Ontario examine this grave question in a new paper: Electroencephalographic Recordings During Withdrawal of Life-Sustaining Therapy Until 30 Minutes After Declaration of Death
Norton et al. examined frontal EEG recordings from four critically ill patients at the point where their life support was withdrawn. Here are some details on the four: (table at link)
Here’s the EEG recordings. None of the patients met criteria for brain death at baseline. Time 0 represents the moment of clinical death, namely when arterial blood pressure (ABP) became constant, indicating that the heart had stopped. This occured a few minutes after life support had been withdrawn.
Norton et al. note that for three of the four patients, EEG activity ceased before the heart stopped beating – up to 10 minutes before, in the case of patient #2. However, patient #4 showed a slightly different pattern, with electrical activity (delta wave bursts) occuring up to 10 minutes after the final heartbeat.
The authors say that it’s hard to explain these apparently post-mortem delta waves:
It is difficult to posit a physiological basis for this EEG activity given that it occurs after a prolonged loss of circulation. These waveform bursts could, therefore, be artefactual in nature, although an artefactual source could not be identified.
(Excerpt) Read more at blogs.discovermagazine.com ...
Could there be spiritual things that doctors do not understand?
Note to all physicians: You can’t measure Him.
What about the electrolytes in the blood (including sodium and potassium) still helping to carry an existing electrical charge, even if the heart had stopped.
The reference to a continuing arterial blood circulation doesn’t make any sense so I’ll need somebody to interpret.
When I went into a slow cardiac arrest (took about 30 minutes before I croaked, right in front of the hospital and doctor), they hit me twice with the defibrillator which restarted my heart but their biggest problem was getting a breathing tube properly down my throat to get oxygen into my lungs and a restarting blood circulation.
Doctors still don’t know what did me in but they think it was a rare chemical imbalance of the body’s salt that directly stopped the heart. After two comas, pneumonia, an awful back rash and 50+ brain seizures, I awoke and thought “What the hell happened” though I knew I was in a hospital.
My heart’s been fine since they restarted it. Can’t say the same for my wallet.
Sorry, no lights, tunnels, angels, relatives or debt collectors.
Just glad to be back from “the other side”, Dr. Venkman.
I’d be curious to do this with animals let’s see if they get the same Delta Way first after death. If it’s Unique to humans it’d be very intriguing.
Glad you are still with us! I think that when blood pressure goes to zero then the electrolytes stop being delivered to cells. How long does nearby blood supply electrolytes? I do not know.
Oh that's a bad sign. 8>) (Yes I'm kidding) Glad you are still among the living.
Do you believe in God?
A dead animal will keep twitching after it is dead. I don’t think it necessarily means brain activity, but maybe?
Do I believe in God? talk about asking the Million Dollar question. Yes, maybe, don’t know, but I do know that miracles happen, which is what my doctors said when I suddenly came out of my comas.
I had beaten an unofficial “deadpool”. Nobody expected me to either come out of the two comas, etc alive or unscathed (minor memory delays and spelling mistakes but nothing serious).
I came out of the “Artic Freeze” coma (body temperature lowered chemically to 82*F; then was in a regular coma; got pneumonia and survived; had about 50+ brain seizures and came out reasonably sane.
To everyone I know, including my cardiologist who I saw the other day, view these are miracles since they still don’t know why I died (for about two minutes - timing and location were everything. I told my story awhile ago at FR.
Miracle> I was able to call my wife who called my son, then a federal police officer in DC, to come and get me at my office a few blocks away, as I thought that I had food poisoning (no heart pains, or anything, just a very sick feeling in my stomach).
My son’s patrol car had no siren, only flashing lights, but he got me from my office to Alexandria Hospital, about 5-6 miles away in 6:30 PM DC rush hour traffic. He drove 450 miles through hostile territory and one of the most powerful sandstorms in Iraq during the war, so DC traffic was nothing.
He or my wife had called the hospital and told them that I was coming in, so went my son took me out of the car (I clinically died when I hit the ground), it was right in front of Dr. Dixon and his crash cart.
The defibrillator started my heart up on the second charge, they finally got oxygen into me, and then into the emergency room. Have no idea what they did then (induced coma, fluids, etc) but I woke up 6 days later to everyone’s surprise (had to focus my eyes for a few minutes on FOX NEWS). Then saw my family and work supervisor smiling and literally clapping.
After that, they cleaned up my back,put in a defib/pacemaker (my bosom body), and had me do some walking exercises. The nurses were safe because I couldn’t move fast enough in chasing them due to the IV bottle/moveable rack attached to my arm.
Another miracle. The rehab team was great and had me walking the halls to test the strength of my heart and body. After two days of this, they asked me if I wanted to try a set of stairs. I said yes, and proceeded to walk down and back up them in a regular one step/one leg stride, not the one step at a time with two feet on it.
They had never seen that happen.
I’ve seen things in science you wouldn’t believe (I did paleontological research), viewed patterns in jungle/tropical trees that were absolutely perfect re the leaves arrangements, rock deformations that almost defy imagination, and other things.
I believe in something that is above man. Call it God or whatever you want, but I shouldn’t be here. I experienced so many medical miracles in 6 days that I know there are powers greater than our own. Names are irrelevant.
As Sgt. Friday used to say, “The facts, mame, just the facts”. The “fact” is that I am writing to you tonight, 7-1/2 years later after I died. Unless I’m a “ghostwriter”, this posting is me, legit, and real.
Beautiful report!
It would be interesting to correlate the findings with the subjects’ faith and level of activity in the same.
Reminds me of the movie Brainstorm.
[[What about the electrolytes in the blood (including sodium and potassium) still helping to carry an existing electrical charge, even if the heart had stopped.]]
It wouldn’t be carried anywhere- as the body’s systems have shut down- it’s not like it would be circulating- perhaps a little woudl be aroudn hte brain and perhaps affect that part for a little while-
I did have an NDE- peritonitis- high fever, convulsions- etc- went to hell (don’t tell me to go there- already been)- My own personal uneducated belief is that these NDE visions are misfiring synapses, or synapses gone haywire, right at point of death- but things I saw in my mind’s eye about hell i wasn’t aware of before hand ... that i know of- I wasn’t versed in the bible, and certainly never discussed hell with anyone- nor read anything about it that I am aware of— only later did i learn more about hell- and it kinda jived with what I experienced- Butt who knows- perhaps i read something somewhere and just didn’t remember- but lemme tell ya- the experience was absolutely frightening and torturous- it was, well, hell- Dread, panic, fear, hot (probably had something to do with the fever I had)- suffocating enveloped in sand- ants and creepy crawlies all over me- blackness- terrible sounds- screams- smell- there’s more to the story- but briefly- was given a ‘test’ had to count bell sounds- did ok for a bit- but then failed- cried- voice said “- you don’t exist’- then I felt real fear- being completely alone, in space- ‘not existing’ but being aware- having a consciousness- hard to explain really- but that was even more frightening than the ‘hell’ as I was completely alone- in pitch black darkness-
Needless to say it shook me to the core- It was 35 years ago and i can still see everything I went through as though it just happened-
Again- I don’t believe it was an actual physical experience, but rather psychological one brought on by high fever, synapses gone haywire, and near death, lack of oxygen from not breathing- but who knows- All i know is it was something that I had to live with- and it wasn’t pleasant
*** What about the electrolytes in the blood (including sodium and potassium) still helping to carry an existing electrical charge, even if the heart had stopped. ***
My thought also. There is still cell to cell communication, not like flipping off a light switch.
*** I’d be curious to do this with animals let’s see if they get the same Delta Way first after death. ***
Read about fluorescence in roundworms at death.
BTW, the article stated the patients were heavily sedated. Looking at their dosages of morphine and fentanyl, I thought was an understatement...Especially with their dx’s.
If the heart stops, does the brain immediately lose consciousness?
Curiousity question. Prior to the hell experience, did you experience lots of colored lights, like a visual field all firing off, pop pop pop..?
I remember once when I was croaking thinking, “what is that?”
The immediate answer was “synaptic gaps-firing”
The doctor was figuring out a weight to dosage with a big old syringe, and math impaired me knew it instantaneously. I remember how blue his eyes were,, and how intense he was. Then he stabbed it into my chest, and boing, my little foray into all the answers to all the questions was over, and I was back in the land of unknowing.
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