Megachurch pastor says Christianity doesn’t hinge on Jesus’ birth, and a debate rages

The State ^ | 12/24/2016 | Kate Shellnut

[Gamecock]

The pastor of one of America’s largest megachurches stirred up Christmas controversy after preaching that the story of Jesus’ virgin birth is not crucial to the Christian faith.

“If somebody can predict their own death and resurrection, I’m not all that concerned about how they got into the world,” Andy Stanley said in a Dec. 4 sermon at North Point Community Church, which draws 36,000 attendees across six locations in suburban Atlanta. “Christianity doesn’t hinge on the truth or even the stories around the birth of Jesus. It hinges on the resurrection of Jesus.”

[ExNewsExSpook]

And I’m guessing Dr. Stanley would disagree with his son’s views on the importance of the virgin birth of Christ.

[time4good]

Actually, that is what separated Jesus - both fully God and fully Man from the rest of us - He said “No man takes my life. I lay it down [by my choice] and I will raise it up again.”. But also the New Testament is clear as Paul writes that the Holy Spirit raised Christ from the dead. It also states that God raised Him from the dead. So it was a Triune effort.

Jesus spiritual-Man raised himself - Jesus physical-Man from the dead.

[Carry me back]

This is possible another preacher that is having his words twisted. I’m pretty sure this guy believes in Christ virgin birth. There seems to be an on going plan to discredit the most popular ministers by taking there words out of txt and posting them on the net, act. Don’t fall for it.

[DocRock]

Ah, 33 posts before you mention the crucial prophecy when mankind was cursed. The birth of our Savior fullfilled this prophecy as the only seed of a woman.

By the way, King Herod thought Jesus birth was important enough to kill every boy under 2 years old in Bethlehem.

[xzins]

I would say he’s shalllow, but the truth is that he has no depth at all.

[null and void]

OK, I see what you mean.

I’ll still argue for the calendar starting with the resurrection (I’m stubborn) on the grounds that when the Christians are resurrected, there will be no further need of calendar!

[DennisR]

They can.

[Tax-chick]

wasn’t it only after his ascension that he became immortal?

He was immortal on earth before he ascended. Also stuff like walking through walls and bilocation.

[Tax-chick]

Point 1, I have to admit, is interpretation, although it’s a standard one. If Jesus had not been physically resurrected, how is He different from any other important religious figure, from Moses to Buddha?

Point 2, I think, is a tautology. Stories are not what establish religious truth. Events establish religious truth, and our source for events is the Bible, specifically the Gospels.

If Kolokotronis were here, he would now call me a black-and-white text-obsessed Augustinian, with a sidewise swipe at my ancestral Calvinism, bless his heart.

[scbison]

and had to be a virgin birth...

[SoFloFreeper]

The incarnation is essential to have a resurrection. Come on Andy.

[Vendome]

Uhm...K well, you are stupid.

Without the virgin birth, there is no reason for his crucification and none of it would have any meaning...

[af_vet_1981]

An alternate point of view
1. I don't see anything in the scriptures that suggest there is a single hinge to Christianity, or that it would be the Resurrection. I can imagine where someone might pick up that idea (First Corinthians), but a careful reading of that scripture shows the foundation premise is not the Resurrection, but rather that Jesus is the Messiah (Christ).
2. The stories around Jesus' birth are part of that foundational premise. Jesus being the Messiah rests on those Gospel accounts where the angel of the LORD appeared to the shepherds.
3. As the religious celebration of Christmas is centered on this Gospel account, it is centered on the critical point, that Jesus is the Christ and the Angel of the LORD bore witness to His miraculous birth.

And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be taxed. (And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.) And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city. And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David:) To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child. And so it was, that, while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered. And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn. And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night. And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid. And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger. And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying, Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men. And it came to pass, as the angels were gone away from them into heaven, the shepherds said one to another, Let us now go even unto Bethlehem, and see this thing which is come to pass, which the Lord hath made known unto us. And they came with haste, and found Mary, and Joseph, and the babe lying in a manger. And when they had seen it, they made known abroad the saying which was told them concerning this child. And all they that heard it wondered at those things which were told them by the shepherds. But Mary kept all these things, and pondered them in her heart. And the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all the things that they had heard and seen, as it was told unto them. And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called Jesus, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb. And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord; (As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord;) And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons. And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him. And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ. And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law, Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said, Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word: For mine eyes have seen thy salvation, Which thou hast prepared before the face of all people; A light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.

Luke, Catholic chapter two, Protestant verses one to thirty two,
as authorized, but not authored, by King James

[Tax-chick]

the foundation premise is not the Resurrection, but rather that Jesus is the Messiah

Yeah, okay. I can see that.

[lexington minuteman 1775]

My faith is not based on what some MEGACHURCH Pastor says its based on the Word of God.
If God says that Jesus was born of a virgin I don’t care if that unhinges Andy Stanley...that’s his problem not mine..
My dad’s name was Milt...hes not famous like Andy’s dad so therefore what I say has little weight...but what the Holy Word of God says has all the weight I need...
Here’s something for you to ponder Andy, way back in the beginning when Adam an Eve sinned...the made clothing out of leaves to hide and they hid from God in the garden...when confronted they went into full blame mode...Adam blamed Eve...Eve blamed the serpent and God made them clothing made of animal skins...now they lived with the guilt that their sin was covered by a blood sacrifice...before then it was a vegans paradise cause no animals were killed or eaten...and blood sacrifice is what Jesus atonement was about as well...without Atonement Andy we are screwed no matter where or how Jesus was born...do you get it?
Now the Ressurrection is the crown..because that allows us to escape the throes of death...but you keep preaching it boy...hopefully somebody gets saved in spite of you and that my dear lad is GRACE...not your preaching but the Holy unction of GOD!
freegards
LEX

[Jan_Sobieski]

Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel*.

[avenir]

“Megachurch pastor says...”

There’s your problem. Ditch Stanley, et. al, and listen to God’s appointed servants via Scripture. They don’t mangle the message...ever!

[georgiegirl]

I don't see that Andy is saying anything extraordinary. Paul wrote about the Resurrection being the centerpiece of Christianity (below). The gospel Paul preached was the resurrection. That does not negate Jesus virgin birth by any means, but the good news IS the resurrection, His and ours:

And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that He raised Christ from the dead. But He did not raise Him if in fact the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied..1Co 15:14-19

[Backin1998]

If he refers to the date of birth yes. The resurrection is what is more important for me.

I agree totally. The New Testament dwells briefly on Jesus's birth, but develops the tenets of Christianity throughout.

[Unam Sanctam]

For shame. So much for the Incarnation...