Posted on 12/19/2016 6:19:00 PM PST by Captain Peter Blood
It has been a very emotional roller coaster type of week for me and my two siblings.
Last Monday night my Father was taken to the Emergency Room and was diagnosed with severe dehydration. For the last two months he has been eating less and less and has made know to all of us that he wants to die.
He is 93 and two weeks ago we found out that he has imminent heart failure. His heart is just worn out and at his age he will not be getting a heart transplant. He had bypass and heart valve replacement at age 80 and has gotten another 13 years to be with us.
His best friend from childhood died almost three weeks ago, they were close and had been since they were about two or three years old. His decline became rapid after that and now here we are in Hospice care in the hospital. I must add after his friend died he got a Strep Throat and a bad chest cold. He just has no fight left in him.
He has deteriorated to the point that he can hardly move and his skin is so sensitized you cannot touch him without him crying out in pain.
I don't know what to think or what to do. My Sister has been caring for him for the last two years while he has been living with her and since she and my brother have been with him more more than I have, I felt my Sister should make some of the day to day decisions. She has been close to him since our Mother died 36 years ago.
While all of us don't want him to suffer needlessly, I have some very serious Moral and Ethical problems with the Hospice Protocols. It is and/or can be a drawn out process. On one hand you are starving someone or you are allowing someone to be over medicated by Morphine to ease the situation and "Help" them along on the journey.
There just are no real answers and it seems everything is in a huge grey area. You wish that is was mercifully over quickly but it doesn't work that way.
I would appreciate any experiences or feedback from those of you that may have gone through this.
My Father was a very early Trump supporter and told me at least a year ago that his biggest wish was to live to vote for Donald Trump and see him win. Well he did do that.
I saw my dad on his riding mower in my parents’ yard as I was turning in the drive-not long after he died. He had on his summer hat and seersucker shirt, waving and grinning at me and looking happy as can be.
Sometimes, out at that house-now belonging to one of my siblings-all the kitchen cabinets end up being open. We think it’s our mother, encouraging us to cook.
Prayers to you and your family.
I have been through this twice, but will have to do it again.
My Dad broke a hip and femur at 89. Developed pneumonia,and his healing ability was gone. They knocked the pneumonia out, but he continued to deteriorate. Was discharged to hospice and passed 12 hours later. He did not want to die in the hospital. My opinion was an overdose of morphine.
My Mom at 86 was fighting cancer and underwent chemp and radiation treatment. Really wrecked her health and left her unable to eat or drink fluids. They wanted to discharge her to hospice, but hospice can not administer IV fluids on intubate . We refused to let them starve and dehydrate her to death. Under threat of a law suit, the hosp treated her to the point she could again take fluid and food by mouth. Then she was discharged to hospice.
Pain was her biggest challenge, and hospice uses drugs that Drs will not prescribe to other patents. This helped, and allowed hefr to eat and stay hydrated. After 4 months, she “graduated” from hospice, meaning she was no longer in a life threatening situation. That was almost 3 years ago. She has started getting weaker of late, so will deal with it when we have to.
To answer you on the morphine, I felt it was a godsend for my Mom, as it saved her life. On my Dad, I think his body had already given out and he just wanted to go home. Once there, he was at peace, and without any pain due to the drugs.
There are several good articles on signs of approaching the end of life. Sorry I don’t have the links, but it is worth searching.
And DNR is part of hospice. They concentrate on comfort, not prolonging life at that point.
My grandmother was in hospice, passed at age 100. All you can do it be with hi, talk to him, and make sure he’s as comfortable as he cam be until the time comes.
It’s okay if he’s ready to go.
I appreciate you stating this. This is what my sisters and I were told when my mother was in hospice care. She had fallen just after her 97th birthday, and although making it through hip surgery well, just never could get her strength back. It was obvious she was going into a decline, which the hospice nurses were able to explain to us. She had started "seeing" people who had died years ago. We brought her home from the nursing home. There were two of us staying with her at all times and hospice checking on her daily. Our pastor's visit with her may have been the last time she seem lucid at all, acknowledging his words of comfort about her Savior with a nod. After that, she was very peaceful. No desire for food or drink. Her body just did not want or need it. She died peacefully at home about a week later.
My father went into hospice with end stage renal disease. No more treatment was possible and was essentially filling up with fluid. They didn’t give him pain mess but did give him atropine.it eased his labored breathing enormously and may have some sedative properties. Being there with him..and your sister will bring you closer. That can be very comforting. I wish you well and send prayers for your Dad.
God Bless you and your father. Prayers up for all of you.
Like a another person said, having that conversation with your dad is good for you as well as him. And I also told my dad that it was okay to go; He had been a great Dad. Tell him that you and your siblings will be okay and will look after each other
Went through Hospice with my B-I-L who had Cancer as well as my Mother and Aunt who both died of Organ Failure.
Hospice makes the Patient comfortable and pain free. They do nothing to “speed up” the Patient’s demise, they just don’t provide Life Extending treatment.
If the Doctor’s see no path for your Father’s recovery, Hospice Care is the right thing to do. They are trained to deal with the situation. I’m not sure what your Moral and Ethical issues are. It is all about the Patient being Pain free and receiving dignified end of Life care.
As an aside, my Father who was also 93 passed away the end of October. He had a Heart Attack after getting emergency Abdominal Surgery. Up until the last week of his Life he was perfectly fine. He survived 60 Years of Alcoholism, achieving Sobriety at age 79 and he survived Lymphoma at age 82. Full Remission after just one round of Chemo.
I figured he would make it to 100, but 93 wasn’t a bad run.
Prayers for you Father and the rest of your Family.
By definition the demise of the patient is speeded up. Dehydrating and starving a patient will definitely hasten the time of the person's passing.
>>>By definition the demise of the patient is speeded up. Dehydrating and starving a patient will definitely hasten the time of the person’s passing<<<
My B-I-L was not dehydrated or starved in Hospice. He was conscious while under Hospice Care for three weeks and was provide sustenance during that time. He was given drugs for Pain but nothing to slow the progress of his Cancer.
Both my Aunt and Mother were unconscious when put in Hospice and passed away in just a few days.
My mother quit eating. She lived in a retirement home in her own apartment with all her meals provided. They even would bring them to her but she just put them in the fridge and didn’t eat. She didn’t drink much either. One night she fell and managed to call 911. The doctor said her albumin level had dropped so low that he thought she only had 3 months to live. He did recommend that she go on a feeding tube. She didn’t want to. My brother insisted. She did hospice at home. I would go over twice a day and pour the “food” down the tube directly into her stomach. I also tried to get her to eat regular food but usually it was only a mouthful. She would drink Ensure.
After several months she got a little stronger and she ended up living a full year before she passed away. Her skin was very week. A small bruise would turn into a stage 4 wound. We got a cream that cost over $300 for a small tube. It was amazing though. We also had morphine. I was told to keep her on it all the time since it is easier to manage pain that way. Eventually it took more and more to manage the pain from the deterioration of her skin. I don’t know whether she died from other causes or from too much morphine. She passed peacefully and her last words were to order Jesus to open the door and let her in.
I’m sorry about your dad. I hope you find a way to keep him comfortable and close to his God. My mom, btw, pulled out the feeding tube after a couple of months.
Prayers for your father and for you and your family.
Prayers for this family and Prayer Warrior Pings......
See post 2. Dad died in 2015 of pancreatic cancer. Your presence, prayers, and patience is what he needs. Talk to him. Pray with him. Prayers for you and your family.
Yes! Any pain medication they need!! They are NOT going to
become “drug addicts” this late in the game! So, whatever
they need to keep them reasonably comfortable as possible.
My father died over 14 yrs. ago at the age of 81. He stated
that he did NOT want to be kept living on “machines” as that
was NOT living! He said he was ready to go; that he had
really been surprised that he made it to 70 yrs. as he was
a combat veteran of WWII in N. Africa, Italy & Germany and
shell-shocked all to pieces. - It’s a very difficult thing
to deal with; but you will get through it. - Do the best
you all can do & just love him!
My FR Friend you, your Father and your Family are in my Prayers. In Jesus’ Name. Amen.
My mother had three weeks to live and we brought her home to take care of her ourselves. I have always wished we had left her in the hospital where she was getting good and immediate care and I was there round the clock. The last week was painful tho she was sedated with as much as we had been given. I think she would have gotten more morphine when she needed it had she been in the hospital. Pain relief is for the patient. I would have gladly used all it took to help her. I will not make that mistake again. I also had an aunt who requested no resuscitation and somehow she was brought back from dying and was terribly angry because she was ready to die. Prayers for your dad and his caretakers. A difficult time for a family but he has his loved ones with him. Such a blessing and comfort for him.
The hospital pumped fluids into him, ran some tests and sent him home in a week. He is fine now, for a 90 year old, but the incident initiated some legal issues regarding medical power of attorney and how far they wanted us to go in terms of resuscitation and invasive treatment to prolong life. It turns out they do not want us to go very far. DNR orders for both parents.
In your situation I would advise using your common sense. Make him comfortable and help to make his remaining days as painless as possible. Let the morphine flow, as much as he wants.
You are wrong on the Catholic Church stance. If death is imminent,and expected, you need not take extraordinary means.
However, witholding nutrition, and hydration to hasten death is not moral.
I watched my friend’s Dad undergo “comfort care”..He could have, without extraordinary means lived. Saline iV’s, morphine, and watching his lips become parched and the conjunctiva of his eyes stuck to his eyelids was horrible.
All I could do was tell him, “this is not what I would have chosen for you, but it wasn’t my choice, and sit by his bed side and pray.
It’s a tough call. Sometimes....in the natural progression of dying....the person will sometimes refuse eating/drinking. Not being withheld by a caretaker. But that is a debate for another thread.
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