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Machiavelli Explains What Makes Republics Tick
WSJ ^ | 29 july 2016 | JOSEPH EPSTEIN

Posted on 08/13/2016 7:53:57 AM PDT by DUMBGRUNT

... Of Caesar, Machiavelli notes that he was “able to so blind the multitude that it saw not the yoke under which it was to lay its neck.” ...

In the 24th chapter of the “Discourses,” Machiavelli wrote: “When it is absolutely a question of the safety of one’s country, there must be no question of just or unjust, of merciful or cruel, of praiseworthy or disgraceful; instead, setting aside every scruple one must follow to the utmost any plan that will save her life and keep her liberty.” His stringent view of human nature combined with his originality and penetration made Niccolo Machiavelli, in his day and still in ours, the pre-eminent political philosopher of the world not as it ought to be but as it is.

(Excerpt) Read more at wsj.com ...


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; History
KEYWORDS: niccolomachiavelli
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His stringent view of human nature combined with his originality and penetration made Niccolo Machiavelli, in his day and still in ours, the pre-eminent political philosopher of the world not as it ought to be but as it is.

Leopards spots, zebra stripes, human nature...

1 posted on 08/13/2016 7:53:58 AM PDT by DUMBGRUNT
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To: DUMBGRUNT

From WSJ comments:

“Republicans, especially social-issue conservatives, would prefer to lose elections than taint their moral beliefs; this is noble, but foolish when dealing with nations and politics.
It is highly commendable when living your own life.
The Liberal Democrats long ago left any semblance of honor, ethics or morality and choose to win at any cost. Their strategy is crude, but effective: Promise free stuff, talk about morality, but have no intention or ability to deliver. Their objective is to obtain power at any cost as they have done for decades.
There is middle ground where independents, moderates, blue dog or Reagan democrats, extreme freedom-loving patriots, and fiscal-issue conservatives can reach consensus...and win elections. And only thereby, change the death spiral in which we find our nation by reintroducing the foundational concepts of individual rights, free of excessive federal intervention in any of its varied forms.


2 posted on 08/13/2016 7:57:40 AM PDT by DUMBGRUNT (Looks like it's pretty hairy.)
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This is what makes 'Republicans tick'

3 posted on 08/13/2016 7:59:57 AM PDT by HokieMom (Pacepa : Can the U.S. afford a president who can't recognize anti-Americanism?)
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To: DUMBGRUNT

To understand politics and government, you must understand human nature.

For politics and government are carried out by humans.

And humans are a damn mess.

Human beings are just bags of emotions walking around.

The Democrats understand this and exploit it.

The Republicans hire Political Scientists and try to determine the party makeup of every block.

The Democrats hire Psychologists and Sociologists and try to influence how a person votes.

The Republicans are busy analyzing while the Democrats are busy influencing.

Which side do you think will win?


4 posted on 08/13/2016 8:26:20 AM PDT by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: HokieMom

Your cartoon is good and true, but it really points out that our constitutional republic is already dead. We’re ruled by nine unelected and unaccountable judges who decide what rights we do and don’t have, and our elections have become just about trying to influence them. We merely have an illusion of controlling our own destiny at this point.


5 posted on 08/13/2016 8:53:35 AM PDT by pepsi_junkie (ui)
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To: blueunicorn6
The Democrats understand human nature......they hire Psychologists and Sociologists and try to influence how a person votes. The Republicans are busy analyzing while the Democrats are busy influencing. Which side do you think will win?

Points to ponder

6 posted on 08/13/2016 9:15:03 AM PDT by Liz (SAFE PLACE? A liberal's mind. Nothing's there. Nothing penetrates it.)
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To: DUMBGRUNT

Note to liberals and especially NPR listeners: this Sage offers a timeless reminder that we live in the world that is, not in the world that we wish it would be.


7 posted on 08/13/2016 9:15:26 AM PDT by The_Media_never_lie
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To: DUMBGRUNT

He simply didn’t delude himself into wishing that humans were different (and wanting to force them to be different) and instead took us as we are. The rest is simple statistical deduction.

This is the essence of the difference between conservatives and liberals. Conservatives recognize and accept human nature and make the best of it. Liberals want to remake humans in their perfect ideal to create utopia and in the process create hell.


8 posted on 08/13/2016 9:18:18 AM PDT by aquila48
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To: DUMBGRUNT

“Republicans, especially social-issue conservatives, would prefer to lose elections than taint their moral beliefs; this is noble, but foolish when dealing with nations and politics.
It is highly commendable when living your own life.”

Reminds me very much of Mark Levin.


9 posted on 08/13/2016 9:23:40 AM PDT by aquila48
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To: DUMBGRUNT

” The Liberal Democrats long ago left any semblance of honor, ethics or morality and choose to win at any cost. Their strategy is crude, but effective: Promise free stuff, talk about morality, but have no intention or ability to deliver.”

They correctly see politics as war. And lying cheating and throwing the kitchen sink at your enemy in a war is perfectly fine, because the name of the game is winning using whatever means helps you do so.


10 posted on 08/13/2016 9:30:44 AM PDT by aquila48
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To: DUMBGRUNT
Can free government be reestablished in a corrupt republic? Is there enough virtue remaining in America 2016 for renewal? For insight, I can’t help but return to a chapter from a favorite read, in Niccolò Machiavelli’s Discourses on Livy.
11 posted on 08/13/2016 9:39:48 AM PDT by Jacquerie (ArticleVBlog.com)
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To: HokieMom

EXCELLENT ‘toon that sums things up well!


12 posted on 08/13/2016 9:55:39 AM PDT by MarchonDC09122009 (When is our next march on DC? When have we had enough?)
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To: DUMBGRUNT

Very glad you thought to bring up Machiavelli.
Our governing overseers have learned well his lesson on getting what you want from the people.

Create a crisis which requires a predetermined solution to achieve your broader goal.

Never let a crisis go to waste.

RE: “His stringent view of human nature combined with his originality and penetration made Niccolo Machiavelli, in his day and still in ours, the pre-eminent political philosopher of the world not as it ought to be but as it is.

Leopards spots, zebra stripes, human nature...”


13 posted on 08/13/2016 10:02:35 AM PDT by MarchonDC09122009 (When is our next march on DC? When have we had enough?)
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To: blueunicorn6
The Republicans are busy analyzing while the Democrats are busy influencing. Which side do you think will win?

My heart says, we shall prevail!
My head is not certain.

14 posted on 08/13/2016 11:22:49 AM PDT by DUMBGRUNT (Looks like it's pretty hairy.)
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To: DUMBGRUNT

Republicans have no problem losing. They still get the trappings of power and control of trillions of dollars while letting the democrats take the blame. If you’re a dog getting table scraps are you going to complain about not washing the dishes???

I finally read “The Prince” a couple years ago on my many long flights. Then, I watched “Borgia” on Netflix. I didn’t realize Macciavelli’s inspiration was Cesare Borgia. I read the book again after finishing the series. very enlightening. I highly recommend both.

As was said. A leopard can’t change it’s spots. And a scorpion will still sting the frog.


15 posted on 08/13/2016 12:10:51 PM PDT by Organic Panic (Hillary Clinton, the elderly white woman's version of "I dindu nuffins.")
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To: HokieMom

I am not a Trump fan at all when it comes to economic policies.

But I’m still voting for him and will do what I can to get others to vote for him. I think he will be a disaster if he implements his trade policies. But we, as Americans, can recover from that easily. And I think Trump is smart enough to change paths if his policies hurt us. We CAN NOT recover from another 8 years of Obamunism, pussified republicans, 3 new ultra lib rubber stamp supreme court justices, and lawless immigration.


16 posted on 08/13/2016 12:14:12 PM PDT by Organic Panic (Hillary Clinton, the elderly white woman's version of "I dindu nuffins.")
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To: MarchonDC09122009

If we can get Trump to talk about “auditing the Fed” — that will get the attention of the skeptical Rand/Ron Paul millennial voters who put so much importance on that one issues alone.


17 posted on 08/13/2016 8:02:10 PM PDT by HokieMom (Pacepa : Can the U.S. afford a president who can't recognize anti-Americanism?)
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To: pepsi_junkie

If Trump does win and is able to appoint two justices from the list he’s offered that’s been vetted by the Heritage Foundation and the Federalist Society, and the good Lord sees fit, America just might be saved. That’s the illusion I’m clinging too!


18 posted on 08/13/2016 8:05:08 PM PDT by HokieMom (Pacepa : Can the U.S. afford a president who can't recognize anti-Americanism?)
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To: Organic Panic

Trump’s talk to the National Association of Home Builders addressed trade. He wanted them to know that he supports free trade, just wants to review to make sure it’s fair to America. I know free traders don’t like tariffs, so he might have to be shown the light on how tariffs can actually hurt. He said incentives don’t work but maybe they just need a different type of incentives than have been tried in the past.


19 posted on 08/13/2016 8:08:16 PM PDT by HokieMom (Pacepa : Can the U.S. afford a president who can't recognize anti-Americanism?)
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To: Organic Panic

Trump’s talk to the National Association of Home Builders addressed trade. He wanted them to know that he supports free trade, just wants to review to make sure it’s fair to America. I know free traders don’t like tariffs, so he might have to be shown the light on how tariffs can actually hurt. He said incentives don’t work but maybe they just need a different type of incentives than have been tried in the past.


20 posted on 08/13/2016 8:08:16 PM PDT by HokieMom (Pacepa : Can the U.S. afford a president who can't recognize anti-Americanism?)
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