Posted on 07/04/2016 8:49:14 AM PDT by lulu16
"Are you still entitled to consider yourself an American if you choose to live abroad?
As Vice President of Business Development for Best Places in the World to Retire, I have been told by many people living abroad that they have been told (let’s say, by their sister-in-law, Betty) that, because of their decision to live abroad, they were no longer “American”. A month and a half ago, my wife and I crossed over the US – Mexico border into Mexico and became expats, which makes this is our first American Independence Day living abroad, and which makes Betty’s challenge now a personal one for me. Because I’m now living outside the US, am I now less American?
Before we see if you agree, let’s clear up come confusion by first defining the term “expat.” “Expat” is short for “expatriate”, which just means someone living outside his or her country of citizenship. It has nothing to with the word “patriot” or “patriotism.” “Expatriot” isn’t even a word. If you don’t believe me, look it up.
We can define “American” in two ways. The first should be pretty unarguable. An American is someone who is a citizen of the United States. So, unless someone renounces his or her citizenship, any US citizen living in the US or anywhere else in the world is still an American, which means that Betty is wrong in the legalistic sense.
But I believe that Betty is communicating something more, which is that if you choose to live outside the borders of the US, you relinquish your right to be included in the social or cultural group as an “American,” that perhaps you have rejected America, or that perhaps you are in some way less American than those living in the US..."
(Excerpt) Read more at bestplacesintheworldtoretire.com ...
If you’ve retired and are living abroad and no longer paying any US taxes, you are an emigrant.
What if you go abroad for an education?
There are many reasons to venture outside the bounds of the U.S., and doing so while not in the employment of the government does not entail a rejection of America, or no intention to return.
Even if one has no intention to return, do you realize how hard the U.S. makes it to actually “Turn in your citizenship?” The creepy ex-girlfriend enalogy in this thread is entirely accurate.
“ex-pat”, says it all: Ex-Patriot. Ex. As in gone, no longer one of us.
P.S. ExPat is NOT the same is merely having a second residence or living overseas for some period of time.
Living in Mexico should be safer than here because I believe that they do NOT allow aliens into the country.
Go figure.
“ex-pat”, says it all: Ex-Patriot. Ex. As in gone, no longer one of us.
Your post says a great deal, though mostly about the quality of the argument being made.. Ex-pat is actually short for expatriate. This word may sound the same to you as Ex-Patriot, but in one case, the ex means physically out of, in the other it means former. In one case, the body of the word means fatherland, in the other it means one who loves his country.
Are you as critical when assigning True Christian status, etc?
Thankfully, for the rest of us who don't give a damn, you're not the final arbiter.
Authoritarian much?
Yeah, my Aussie friends were amazed how it worked.
Yes. All military members living abroad are not engaged.
It sucks. Ever break a collarbone and have a doctor demand that you have $10,000 surgery and not just give you a $30 brace? Or have a child birth with no eridural, or private room afterwards, with two-hour visiting times and a mandatory week-long stay? Or have the baby go through jaundice because they don’t allow formula? Ever wait 4-10 hrs at the hospital just to be looked over?
That’s only what I went through. I have 100X that from friends.
Yes.
Our Creator created us a physical bodies with souls. I think that is a better model, i.e. a combination of organizational principles with some real stuff to organize.
Regardless of the question of whether ex-pats are truly American, the bigger question is whether America as a real country can survive with its organizational principles so truly mangled and morphed as to be unrecognizable to Her founders.
When freedom has become a synonym for license and tolerance is now a synonym for only supporting the latest freakish fads, then I fear that there is little hope for an America worth saving.
I have a lot of friends who have worked overseas as a contract worker, and many of them doing jobs for the military, freeing up men for combat. I may do the same before I retire. I will certainly not feel any less American if I do.plan
People who live in countries with parliamentary governments should understand the system, since they often end up with coalition governments where the prime minister comes from a party that only has about 30%-40% of the seats in parliament.
If that sounds odd, remember that a lot of historical figures who we identify as "real Americans" were actually pioneers who moved west and settled on the frontier because they had gotten sick and tired of what America had become back east.
In what alternate universe is that possible? Because it sure isn't possible in this universe. Unless you officially renounce your U.S. citizenship, you'll be paying U.S. income taxes until you die - regardless of your place of residence.
Only two countries in the whole world expect their ex-pats to file income tax returns - the U.S. and Eritrea.
On a side note: After having lived abroad for the past 35 years, have just been informed that my U.S. brokerage ("When ... talks, people listen" - t.v. commercial from the 1970s) is now cutting itself loose from me - and all other non-residents (what they don't explicitly say: "...worth less than $5 million"). Retired U.S. Air Force sargeants with IRA accounts, living like kings in sleepy fishing villages on $250 / mo., military contractors with 401k accounts, long-term ex-pats like myself who dabble in the stock market... We've all been given the bum's rush. When I asked my broker (whose kids used to play with my kids on the beach during our annual vacation stateside) explained: According to Corporate HQ, we might be terrorists or money-launderers. Well, no... Of course, she phrased it differently: "onerous regulatory hurdles, compliance issues, Know-Your-Customer requirements..." All the brokerages are doing the same thing. And, of course, local banks won't touch U.S. clients with a 10-ft pole because of the new disclosure laws. So we're all in a double-bind.
Regards,
“Because I’m now living outside the US, am I now less American?”
Yes.
___________
I must agree. Assuming one voluntarily leaves, intending never to return, that person has divorced himself from the country in a rather profound way. So, legally still American, but a bit like abandoning your wife and kids forever, and still saying “I’m married”. Just my opinion, of course.
Hell yes. On the one hand, yes because you appreciate our Constitution and its Gd given freedoms so much more, as well as the wonderful American people. And on the other hand, the US still wants to tax you to such an extent, even though you are paying through the nose in your host country, that you must be American!
On the contrary, moving abroad is the best way to pique Uncle Sam's interest in your doings, your comings and goings, your business activities, etc. You'll have to get a biometric passport (until I got mine, the only I.D. I had was my library card - with no picture), get fingerprinted, have to get "your papers" renewed regularly, have to report any changes of address, etc.
It's virtually guaranteed that you'll be subjected to a lot more scrutiny - quite apart from what your host country might expect you to do.
Regards,
Hi KC Lion, we are from north of Tucson, which we love and miss, but my husband has on his bucket list to explore, so we are now in a fishing village in Baja California Sur.
Yesterday, while I stayed in our long term cliff house rental, he went snorkeling, worked on his stand-up paddle boarded technique, walked miles of deserted beach, and was offered beer from friendly locals, was sung to by a little girl and bought grilled chicken off a street vendor to eat dinner on our patio that faces the Sea of Cortez alive with fish flopping out of the water, all for a fraction of the cost of life would be on our coasts.
We are getting up there and this kind of adventure can only be made if you have strength, endurance and flexibility. And we are safe and very happy.
I wish you very well in your travels.
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