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To: EveningStar

natural selection is testable. as a scientific theory, it’s valid. let’s call this micro-evolution.

macro-evolution, on the other hand, is not testable by the scientific method. we cannot devise a test to show that a bacterium can evolve into a blue whale. so it’s just a theory, and should be taught as that. it may or may not be true. but it’s beyond science’s ability to verify at this point.

people who understand this simple fact, take an agnostic approach to it.

i’m Catholic and even if it were true, it doesn’t have any impact on my faith. the Bible contains many allegorical stories. Genesis doesn’t have to be a literal description of how we came to be. God could well have provided the divine spark for the very first life form to come into existence and simply waited for us to become what we are, until he chose to reveal to us his presence.


6 posted on 02/22/2016 10:50:46 AM PST by TangibleDisgust ("To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize." - Voltaire)
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To: TangibleDisgust
i’m Catholic and even if it were true, it doesn’t have any impact on my faith. the Bible contains many allegorical stories. Genesis doesn’t have to be a literal description of how we came to be. God could well have provided the divine spark for the very first life form to come into existence and simply waited for us to become what we are, until he chose to reveal to us his presence.

I'm in that camp. Except, I don't think God recognizes "time". Time is a human invention to describe and measure. Animals don't understand time as they are not aware of their existence beyond their immediate health, well being and/or danger. How long is a day for God? How can time be measured in eternity? Where does it start and end? Evolution certainly has some convincing aspects and I do believe there is something to it. There are species that are obviously the same with some significant differences. Birds, rodents, etc. The same can be said of human "evolution" in only the past 5K+ years. Humans were generally built different than we are today. Life expectancy is different. There are cranial and skeletal differences that can be measured. And there are certainly differences between humans that "evolved" in differing hemisperes. Asia? Africa? Europe?

All that said, I agree with you, the allegorical nature of God's message to his people certainly was framed for the level of development they were at when his message needed to be conveyed. The earliest people did not read and write. They taught and recorded history through stories passed from one generation to the next. They certainly were not capable of grasping astrophysics for a complete understanding on how God created the universe. Simple and symbolic explanation was in order for his target audience. Eventually, somebody wrote it down. Then it was translated for a few years over and over again. But the message was still there.

I can live with however God did it and not have my faith shaken. Shazam or Evolution? I don't care.

20 posted on 02/22/2016 11:09:00 AM PST by Tenacious 1 (You couldn't pay me enough to be famous for being stupid!)
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To: TangibleDisgust
i’m Catholic and even if it were true, it doesn’t have any impact on my faith. the Bible contains many allegorical stories. Genesis doesn’t have to be a literal description of how we came to be.

I'm a Baptist, and I have taken that position in the past. and as a matter of discussion with others, I have no real problem with assuming evolution to be true.

HOWEVER. Against this is 1 Corinthians 15 where it says 21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive There are a number of other verses mentioning Adam by name in the NT

And, as the verse explains, what is the need of a Savior if man did not inherit a sin nature?

Nevertheless, I believe the bible is God's inerrant Word, and I also believe that Science seeks the truth, and the truth cannot contradict the truth. How to reconcile these positions is above my own abilities, and I am content to await God's personal explanation of the matter to me.

27 posted on 02/22/2016 11:12:42 AM PST by chesley (Obama -- Muslim or dhimmi? And does it matter?)
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To: TangibleDisgust
macro-evolution, on the other hand, is not testable by the scientific method. we cannot devise a test to show that a bacterium can evolve into a blue whale.

We could; it would just take an Earth-like planet and a few billion years.

59 posted on 02/22/2016 12:50:12 PM PST by Slings and Arrows (My music: http://hopalongginsberg.com/ | Facebook: Hopalong Ginsberg)
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To: TangibleDisgust

’m Catholic and even if it were true, it doesn’t have any impact on my faith. the Bible contains many allegorical stories. Genesis doesn’t have to be a literal description of how we came to be. God could well have provided the divine spark for the very first life form to come into existence and simply waited for us to become what we are, until he chose to reveal to us his presence.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I used to believe this way also, and then I decided I would really study the book of Genesis and Revelation. I did a very through in depth study and I would suggest all believers do this. What I discovered was that scripture was written very plainly to man, for instruction, reproof etc. If one reads Genesis in context it is a historical book, not allegory. If I cannot believe what God has revealed in Genesis, the very first promise of the coming Messiah, how can I believe anything this book says. Almost all heresies center around twisting the books of Genesis and Revelation. I hope you will study yourself and come to a decision based upon the very Word of God. Blessings to you.


60 posted on 02/22/2016 12:50:50 PM PST by ThisLittleLightofMine
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To: TangibleDisgust; Tenacious 1; chesley; Slings and Arrows; ThisLittleLightofMine
TangibleDisgust: "macro-evolution, on the other hand, is not testable by the scientific method.
we cannot devise a test to show that a bacterium can evolve into a blue whale.
so it's just a theory, and should be taught as that.
it may or may not be true.
but it's beyond science's ability to verify at this point."

But the truth of this matter is that science does verify, more and more each day.
Indeed, all the basics of evolution theory are confirmed daily by scientists working in related fields, including innumerable predictions, such as these.

Astronomical and geological observations confirm the Deep-time scales required for evolution.
Physics and chemistry confirm natural "complexification" of organic molecules.
Biology confirms both the processes (DNA modifications & selection) and results (speciation) of evolution.

All that together makes evolution increasingly observed fact, explained by innumerable-times confirmed theory.

As for your straw-man argument that "no bacteria evolved into a whale", of course not.
But bacteria apparently did evolve into Eukaryotes, about two billion years ago, which became multi-celled animals around 800 million years ago, arising into mammals circa 225 million years ago which branched out into today's 5,500 living species, including whales.

That's the theory: innumerable small changes accumulating and selected over eons of time too large to even imagine.

What's ridiculous is any suggestion that all this happened strictly by random chance, with no Divine plan or interventions.
Nature is, after all, God's creation.

86 posted on 02/23/2016 9:17:27 AM PST by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective...)
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