Posted on 12/25/2015 6:07:58 AM PST by RoosterRedux
Donald Trump may be a fierce debater and a brash critic who is always happy to speak his mind and then some, but there seems to be one place the presidential hopeful is more than happy to lay low - church.
Trump and his family attended the 10:30pm midnight mass service at Bethesda-By-The-Sea in West Palm Beach, Florida on Christmas Eve, and the billionaire businessman somehow managed to avoid the massive number of photographers and members of the press waiting outside to document his arrival.
Instead he slipped inside unnoticed for the service, with the only photographs from the evening coming from some of his fellow churchgoers who uploaded them to social media.
*snip*
Trump's fellow midnight-mass attendees mostly just wrote on Twitter that they had spotted Trump at the service, with a few noting that they were checked by Secret Service members before entering the church.
His Secret Service detail may explain why he slipped in unnoticed as they likely coordinated his entrance to avoid any possible safety concerns for him and his family.
(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...
Thanks for the response.
Do you think God wants you to ASK him for forgiveness every time you commit a sin , or just quit sinning ?
We aren’t hiring a preacher. If that were the case absolutely no one could agree on anybody ever. LOL
God wants us to obey Him. And He wants us to have repentant hearts.
No. Trump’s words are clear:
When asked if he has asked God for forgiveness, he replied, “I don’t think so.â€
Yes, he eats a “little cracker” and drinks his “little wine.” But he confesses to not actually and indeed having asked forgiveness. EVER.
Have you become sinless?
You didn't answer the question.
"When I drink my little wine -- which is about the only wine I drink -- and have my little cracker, I guess that is a form of asking for forgiveness, and I do that as often as possible because I feel cleansed," he said. "I think in terms of 'let's go on and let's make it right.'"
Since I'm pretty sure THAT is impossible (once we become an adult), I'll say no.
Let’s get to the bottom of this discussion. It’s not about your faith or mine or Trump’s. I am sure you are just as good a Christian as myself or Trump.
Why do you think the media asked him if he ever asked for forgiveness ?
Well, aside from the belittling nature of the comments toward Jesus’ Flesh and Blood, although I appreciate the do-it-yourself nature of Protestantism, if trump regularly goes to Presbyterian worship services with communion, the Presbyterian worship service seems to follow the general order of a Catholic Mass, in which the confession of sin is a separate element of the service, placed distinctly before the communion rite. The confessional rite is where one seeks God’s forgiveness. The purpose of communion is spiritual nourishment, going back to the words of Jesus, “My flesh is real food, My blood is real drink.”
So, trump confuses the purpose of the confessional rite and the communion rite. I can understand if he pays no attention during the service, or if has received woefully inadequate religious training, or if he doesn’t really give a damn about all this God stuff, and he’s just trying to figure out the right things to say to get votes, but I don’t see, on the surface, any particular real religious conviction in the words you quote. On the surface, they seem to damn trump as ignorant, at best.
I wasn’t going to bring up that quote, as it puts trump in a very poor light. To me, in that quote, he is ignorant, belittling, and just a vote-grubber. As it is just about impossible to view this quote in a favorable light, it would be the more charitable thing not to bring it up.
Though we cannot judge the heart, we can judge words. And these are the words of an ignorant phony looking desperately for votes. But trump blurts out a lot of things that need qualification. So I am unwilling to condemn trump for this quote. In charity, I’d rather ignore it, and say it is a quote he didn’t get to qualify, and thus, didn’t tell us what he “really meant”
We could argue about religious practices and what they are truly for, and we would end up arguing all day.
Although, if Trump doesn’t go to Catholic Church, it would be easier to understand why he might have said he never ASKED for forgiveness.
My question is why did the ‘media’ ask Trump if he ever asked for forgiveness ?
Was it not, like all the others, a GOTCHA question ?
‘’Do you think Trump ever used the Lord’s prayer as a template or example of how to enter into prayer as a Christian?’’
Maybe. Maybe not. But not doing it is no worse than doing it as a babbling repetition, hail Mary, or other robotic chant.
Our President does not need to be a born-again Christian, but he does need to follow the Constitution fearlessly and strictly. A born-again Christian would be nice, but it isn’t necessary.
“Though we cannot judge the heart, we can judge words. And these are the words of an ignorant phony looking desperately for votes.”
That’s right. We can, and should, judge the words of those who want to earn our votes.
I’m only repeating the results of my research into the liturgical practices of the Presbyterian Church, a church that he proclaimed as his own rather loudly, and apparently proudly. So I’m not arguing with anyone, just reporting the truth.
It’s not my fault that trump, the loudly self-proclaimed Presbyterian seems diametrically opposed to the teachings of his own church.
I don’t really mind if the guy doesn’t really believe. If he doesn’t believe, I’ll pray for him and hope he finds faith in Jesus, but I just don’t like being fibbed to.
I agree. Scripture identifies good leaders who weren’t believers. So while I’d prefer to vote for a follower of Christ, I can vote for someone who isn’t.
I'm no expert on Presbyterians, so maybe you can help me out. Does the Presbyterian church require that you ask God for forgiveness ? They don't have a confessional that I am aware of.
What is the point of Jesus dying on the cross for our sins, if we have to beg for forgiveness for every sin ?
I’m Catholic, so don’t look to me as the Pope of Prebyterianism.
However, I looked at some of their orders of liturgy (what they do when they’re in church), and there is a separate confessional rite prior to the communion rite where they pray that they confess personal sin and corporate sin.
As a Catholic who is close to evangelicalism (I have often prayed and socialized with evangelicals), I would say that the experience of being convicted of one’s own sins by the Holy Spirit is an essential part of evangelicalism (and for most serious Catholics, as well). The natural response of being convicted of sin by the Holy Spirit is to seek forgiveness. From the Lord, it is freely given.
Then the various talking heads would spend days discussing how Trump is a sinner and he admitted it. They would go into detail about what ever sin he confessed to.
Normally, I would consider the last two sentences I just wrote as tinfoil hat material, but this is not a 'normal' time in our country.
Anyway, the answer Trump gave removed their ability to try and delve deeper into his personal life in an attempt to find a chink in the armor.
I find the act of asking him if he ever asked for forgiveness to be very rude and very unprofessional. That is nobody else's business. I noticed they have not asked any other candidate the same question.
In the context of how he was trying to present himself, it was perfectly legitimate. If he wanted to close off the question, when asked if he’d asked for forgiveness, he should have answered yes, and then if they asked, for what, he could have sid, “All have sinned, all have fallen short of the glory of God.” If they persisted, then he could have said, “None of your business.”
But I doubt he knows that scripture.
What he showed was that although he claimed to be an evangelical, he doesn’t actually look like one, talk like one, or walk like one. Thus, many evangelicals migrated from trump, either straight to Sen. Cruz, or to Sen. Cruz with Dr. Carson as a way station.
In states with large evangelical population, that will make some difference.
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