Posted on 08/20/2015 5:17:01 AM PDT by WhiskeyX
In August 1945, during the final stage of the Second World War, the United States dropped atomic bombs on the Japanese cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The two bombings, which killed at least 129,000 people, remain the only use of nuclear weapons for warfare in human history.
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“If the Japanese had a prototype that would explain how the Russian program was successful so soon after the war stopped”
The Soviets were successful so soon after the war because spies in Los Alamos and elsewhere gave the information to them. Remember Klaus Fuchs? The first Soviet nuclear device was an almost exact copy of the Fat Man bomb.
“None of the authentic post war histories mentions it.”
None of the authentic post war histories mentions the MAGIC decrypts of the Axis communications either, until the U.S. Government declassified them in 1978. Until then, the supposedly “authentic postwar histories” were not actually so authentic after all. They said Montgomery planned the Battle of El Alamein using other resources, when in fact Montgomery relied heavily upon the intelligence of Rommel’s situation provided by the MAGIC intercepts of Rommel’s orders and logistics. Likewise with the sinkings of the Italian and German oil tankers in the Mediterranean Sea while enroute to Rommel in North Africa. The supposedly “authentic histories” tell us that an Italian admiral supplied the Allies with the sailing schedules of the tankers. In reality, the Italian admiral story was a false cover for the MAGIC decrypts which were the real source of the Axis sailing schedules.
With respect to the Japanese atomic bomb programs, the Japanese, Americans, and Soviets were all trying their utmost to conceal the realities of the Japanese atomic bomb projects for their own particular reasons. Individual Japanese scientists were ordered to destroy all of the documents before the Occupation began, keep quiet, and also feared possible trials as war criminals if they revealed their roles in such atomic bomb research. The Americans were trying to avoid triggering the agreement to hand over Axis properties and technologies to the Soviets, and they wanted to keep the Soviets in the dark about the details of the Japanese research. The Soviets wanted to keep the Americans and everyone else in the dark about who and what they captured from the Japanese in Korea. Consequently, you had every major state party to the events straining to keep every possible detail of the Japanese research and its results concealed from the public. Aside from the Japanese intelligence officer who was interviewed by Snell, the public disclosure of the destruction of the Japanese cyclotrons, and a number of more minor details, those efforts at concealment from the general public were very effective, until the wartime Japanese documents finally became public knowledge.
Yes. Your post also causes me to see all the musings of Biden and I can’t help but laugh that there are people who actually want him to be president.
Own it and read it when it was first published. Recent revelations demonstrate it is incorrect, just as many of the histories written before the 1978 disclosure of the MAGIC decrypts are now known to be incorrect in certain details. Also note, you shouldn’t wrongly presume someone hasn’t already studied these other sources.
The decrypts were generally known in the 1950s.
Where did the 1978 date come from ?
“But it’s a long ways from there to claiming an actual atomic explosion took place without anyone nearby noticing.”
The alleged test site was over the horizon from the mainland of Korea and small enough in yield to escape notice for any great distance other than by seismograph. Some enterprising investigator would have to inspect seismograph records around the world for that date and time, but they will also have to find a way of discriminating between the atomic explosion and a saturation bombing raid to satisfy the skeptics.
Exactly. The main focus of the Japanese the last two years of the war was to figure out a way to end the war without unconditional surrender. Within a year of Pearl Harbor they had figured out that they were in way over their heads and couldn't win.
Here are the premises that one would have to accept in order to believe that the Japanese had the bomb:
1. That they detonated a bomb weeks before the war ended at this was never detected by the Allies. The first post on this thread indicates that this event was on August 12, 1945, by this time the Japanese had already decided to surrender and their leaders were certainly not interested in testing their own bomb. We had just dropped bombs and Hiroshima and Nagasaki and all reports indicate that the Japanese had no idea what had hit them, this indicates that they were unaware of even the potential for an atomic bomb.
2. That the Japanese had a comprehensive nuclear program and there is ZERO evidence of this. There are no known facilities to enrich uranium, nor are their reactors.
3. Who were the scientists who worked on it? There is no evidence that they had scientists even capable of developing a bomb.
4. Some will say that the Nazis must have sent their atomic program to Japan when the defeat of Germany appeared certain. This would be plausible but for one critical fact: the Germans DID NOT HAVE A NUCLEAR PROGRAM, all of their efforts were focused on rockets.
The simple fact of the matter is that the ONLY place the atomic bomb could have been developed during World War II was in North America for the following reasons:
1. The Manhattan Project employed 130,000 people, many of whom were scientists. The Axis powers and the Soviets simply lacked the manpower.
2. The Manhattan Project was physically HUGE. Oak Ridge was the size of a fairly large city. There were facilities throughout the US and a few in Canada. These were largely in the middle of nowhere, undetected and, most importantly, not in places that were going to be attacked by the enemy. Had the Germans or Japanese wanted to do something on this scale they would have had nowhere to do it.
3. We had all of the Uranium. We were getting Uranium from British sources in the Congo and mines in Colorado. The Germans and Japanese didn't have a source.
4. We had the economic means. The Germans and Japanese simply didn't have the resources to spend on something that they didn't know would work. The only thing that kept their economies from total collapse was slave labor and you can't use slave labor to build a secret atomic weapon.
The Manhattan Project took a skilled workforce of over 500,000 to achieve success. It was impossible for Japan to gather together enough skilled labor and resources to make it physically capable of producing an a-bomb. Japan also didn’t have enough scientific know-how to solve all of the problems of splitting the atom. Even with all of the physicists in American universities, we still had to acquire essential scientists from other countries to make it happen. Where would Japan get the hundreds of physicists needed for such a project? It couldn’t.
I don’t know about the relevance of “no Jews in Japan” but I agree with what you posted, that if Japan was on track at all they were still years away and far behind even the Nazis.
Partly because a great deal of stuff was still classified.
For that matter there is still a great deal of stuff that is still classified under a 100 year seal.
The Germans most certainly did.
Joachimstal in Czechoslovakia was under their control. In fact, the Nazis stopped any sale of uranium from these mines.
This is referenced in the famous Albert Einstein - Leo Szilard letter to FDR.
“The decrypts were generally known in the 1950s.”
The Chicago Tribune published a series of stories aft the battle of Midway in 1942 and nearly exposed the breaking of the codes to the Japanese. Nonetheless, the specific messages and their content remained unknown and unconfirmed until they were finally acknowledged and published. Precisely when MAGIC became sufficiently disclosed to be deemed authentic for historical purposes is subject to debate.
“Where did the 1978 date come from ?”
U.S. Department of Defense. The “Magic” Background of Pearl Harbor. Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Printing Office, Washington, D.C. 20402. 1977. 8 vols.
The Department of Defense is releasing for public use and research this multi-volume study giving the “MAGIC” or communications intelligence background of the 1941 Pearl Harbor disaster. In its review of classified records pursuant to E.O. 11652, the Department of Defense decided that it was in the public interest to declassify the intelligence which the U.S. obtained from the communications of its World War II enemies. This study contains a major part of the communications intelligence which the U.S. derived from intercepted Japanese communications during 1941.
Yes. I do agree on that.
I ran an internet search and came up with many articles debunking the story re: Japan explodes atom bomb off Korea on Aug. 12, 1945. Also, a bibliography of books (recent) on what the state of Germany and Japan’s atom bomb research was at near the end of the war. Neither country had the manufacturing ability to produce one or a delivery system to drop one.
The V-2 was the perfect delivery system for a nuke.
The V-2 had a payload of about 1500#.
The first nukes were about 10,000#
Quite right. The whole thing seems like a tall tale to me.
There was in fact a U-boat captured with uranium oxide at the end of the war, but I seem to recall that it was a fairly small quantity. There were Japanese passengers aboard and they committed suicide rather than fall into the hands of the US Navy.
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