Posted on 05/05/2015 6:10:22 PM PDT by EveningStar
Question: A friend of mine has been reading the Left Behind books that have all of this stuff about the “Rapture” in them. Is there really going to be a “Rapture” like these books talk about?
Answer: No.The “Rapture” refers to a passage in First Thessalonians 4, where Christians are “caught up” in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.” Many Christians believe, and the Left Behind books promote, that this being “caught up” to meet the Lord will occur before the Great Tribulation sometime in the near future. Christians will simply vanish, meet Jesus somewhere in the air, and then return with Him to Heaven to await the end of time.
(Excerpt) Read more at aleteia.org ...
I think that was the ‘Noah’ movie that ended up with about 50(!) different threads on FR!
Clearly, if you are using this passage as a defense of the so-called "rapture", you did not read the article, which specifically explains why this passage doesn't mean what popularizers of heresy want it to mean.
‘Popularizers of heresy’? And of what spirit do you come accusing believers?
Both Mary and Joseph were descended thru David...one was thru Solomon(that line was cursed and would not produce anymore KINGs after Israel’s dispersion) the other thru Nathan which was not cursed in such a way that it would produce no future kings, paving the way for King Jesus! The lineage lines are different in Matthew and Luke because one lists it as thru Mary and the other thru Joseph. The thing is, these lineages are more for temporal “legal” cover. Jesus was conceived by direct means of the Holy Spirit and he really had no Earthly lineage at all other than by the spirit of adoption into the lineage of David!
Sorry but to many people the idea that God is male is not in the bible. I don't respond to such people. Well, not much.
Maybe even global wide volcanic eruptions of both old, present and new volcanoes........
I don’t give a rat’s ass what the author of the article says. He’s wrong.
Even when they do use scripture they run into brick walls .....then they resort to arguing translation literal, symbolic or other wise.
When they take someone into the deep woods it will always grow darker.
Another likelihood!
The scriptures were already provided by the article the thread is on, but here you go.
You have not laid out any scripture that gives any indication of a pre-tribulation rapture as there are none.
The Lord returns ...trumpet...dead in Christ are raised from the dead and receive new resurrected bodies then us who are still alive on earth are caught up with new resurrected bodies and we come down with the Lord to Jerusalem.
Jesus second coming is just that his second coming, there is no third coming of Jesus. We are not given new resurrected bodies to only then be returned to heaven (those believers who have died on earth), these new resurrected bodies are for earth.
How will pre-trib’ers fare in great tribulation when they don’t even understand scripture?
Matthew 24:30-31 “ Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”
First Thessalonians 4:16 “For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.”
First Thessalonians 4:17 “Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. Therefore encourage one another with these words.”
First Thessalonians 4:13-18 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. Therefore encourage one another with these words.
Matthew 24, Verse 21 great tribulation .... verse 29 after the tribulation ... verses 30 & 31 then the Lord returns and gathers his elect. Same sequence of events in Mark 13:19-27
If there are scriptures that support a different sequence of events that show 2nd return of Jesus...catching up of believers...removal of believers .... great tribulation...3rd return of Jesus...show them! You are repeating what you have been taught, now read the word of God as shown here and receive the truth.
Matthew 24:21-31
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days be shortened, there shall no flesh be saved: but for the elects sake those days shall be shortened.
23 then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds from one end of heaven to the other.
I see you’ve ignored every single verse I posted above...and not only that but you have to twist a handful of verses to fit your view.
1 Thess 4:16-17 is the rapture.
Typical Post-Trib response!
You asked, “How will pre-trib’ers fare in great tribulation when they don’t even understand scripture?” Well since I do understand scriptures, and since we will be at the marriage feast, what is happening on Earth at the time will be ‘out of our ‘ken’’. Are you expecting to be here during the Tribulation? Do you want to be here? You could maybe be one of the 144,000 The Holy Spirit selects to evangelize the dying world during the two segments of the Tribulation ... but only if you’re member of one of the twelve tribes from which He will select, excluding Dan.
BTW, in the Jewish wedding system, the bridegroom who had gone to the father’s House to prepare a place for him and his bride, that bridegroom comes back to but not into (does not set foot in the home of) the father-in-law’s house and calls out to his bride and the bridesmaids to come out and join him, then the entourage goes to the bridegroom’s father’s house for the wedding feast.
What’s in a name?
Believing on someone, as the term is used in the Bible means believing all that they said and did, and walking as they walked, and obeying all that they commanded to do. (1John)
As Paul said many times, there those that claim to be what they are not, and they should be put out of the congregation after admonishing them.
As he said to Timothy, we must rightly divide the word of truth from the falsehood that abounds.
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The only “rapture” there will ever be is the “first resurrection.”
That occurs at the end of the trib, because it is the event that Yeshua uses to “shorten” that time as he promised in Matthew 24.
It is described by Paul in 1Corinthians ch 15, and throughout the epistles to the Thjessalonians.
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It’s hard to assess another’s soul over the internet....both of you acknowledge that Yeshua(as you have refered to him) or Jesus, or Emnanual as Christ come in the flesh, you just disagree about “the end game”!. At somepoint you have to drop the “disputations” Paul warned us not to get too involved in and remember the Christ that died for all of us!
No, we disagree on all of it!
If you don’t believe that you are commanded to do the things he has asked, you don’t believe.
If you don’t believe the things he said, you don’t believe.
And if you use the letter Paul wrote to the Thessalonians to assure them that there could not have been a pretrib rapture because the Man of sin and his tribulation had to come first, then you are a real “piece of work.”
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The second coming and the resurrection are one event prophesied in the feast of Trumpets (Yom Teruah), the day of Attonement (Yom Kippur), and the feast of Tabernacles (Sukkot), all of which are linked irrevocably in a 15 day sequence, and commonly called “The Fall Feasts.”
Yom Teruah has always been the event for which “no man knows the day or the hour” because it is the only feast that begins when the new moon shows up at sunset, as peoples eyes adjust to the lower level of light allowing the thin sliver of moon that was in the sky all day long to suddenly become visible.
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Are there two marriage feasts? No just like there are not two returns of Jesus.
What about those saved still on earth after your imaginary rapture? Are they not part of Bride of Christ, have no wedding? Stop and think, this pre-trib nonsense falls apart at every turn when you just read the scriptures on the sequence of events.
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