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[VANITY] Papa Was a Rolling Stone - Question
Oct 25, 2014 | Nobody but me

Posted on 10/25/2014 10:30:26 PM PDT by re_nortex

Here's a full length (12:04) version of Papa Was A Rolling Stone by the Temptations in high quality evidently played off vinyl. This longer version has a very long instrumental introduction and a long bridge at the midpoint.

The musicianship impresses me. A very haunting melody with a string section and brass, rare in music nowadays. Since I know little about the recording industry, I have to ask the intelligentsia (a big word for FReepers), what techniques were used in the early 1970s to create such a sound. I presume it was recorded in the rather modest facilities of Motown in Detroit, shown below. As for the string section, did that predate synthesized violins? If so, were these musicians part of the Motown staff or did they contract with the Detroit Symphony?

Sorry for the naive questions but I know I can find good answers from good people here about this song that, some 40 years later, I still find intriguing.



TOPICS: Chit/Chat; Music/Entertainment
KEYWORDS: detroit; gordy; instrumental; lonesomedove; motown; music; recording; temptations
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1 posted on 10/25/2014 10:30:27 PM PDT by re_nortex
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To: Liberty Valance

I figure you’d know the backstory, LV since you’re very savvy about nearly everything, especially music.


2 posted on 10/25/2014 10:32:24 PM PDT by re_nortex (DP - that's what I like about Texas)
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To: re_nortex

They used tracks and recorded instruments and vocals separately and then engineered them together.


3 posted on 10/25/2014 10:38:04 PM PDT by Fledermaus (The GOPe has to EARN my support and not blame me for their loss.)
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To: re_nortex
Wiki is your friend....

Papa was a rollin' stone

4 posted on 10/25/2014 10:42:58 PM PDT by Bullish (A 5 year old could run the country better than Obama.)
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To: Fledermaus
They used tracks and recorded instruments and vocals separately and then engineered them together.

Thanks. I found some pictures of the smallish studio and what would now be considered recording gear at Motown.

What strikes me is how such a big sound came from those cramped quarters. As you said, with enough overdubbing of the tracks, a lot of audio magic can happen.

5 posted on 10/25/2014 10:43:24 PM PDT by re_nortex (DP - that's what I like about Texas)
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To: re_nortex
The first commercially available synthesizer was the Moog Synthesizer. I think the first one was sold in 1967. Synthesizers were not widely used until 1970 and later, but they certainly existed at the time of this particular recording. I never heard that the Tempts used Synthesizers in their music, certainly not as far back as this recording.

The version of this tune you're referencing was a cover. There is a mildly interesting article here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papa_Was_a_Rollin'_Stone

BTW: Intelligentsia is not a big word for FReepers.

6 posted on 10/25/2014 10:44:32 PM PDT by FredZarguna (His first name is 'Unarmed,' and his given middle name is 'Teenager.')
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To: Bullish
Wiki is your friend....

Not so sure about it being my friend. I've read here on FR that, like Google, leftists are behind Wikipedia, so like the lamestream media, I put it squarely in the enemy camp. Nevertheless, thanks for the link.

7 posted on 10/25/2014 10:46:54 PM PDT by re_nortex (DP - that's what I like about Texas)
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To: re_nortex

I remember the extended version of that song well. I used to have it on vinyl many moons ago. One of the best late night listening jams ever.

A lot of the magic you hear in there is plain old top notch editing and mixing by the Motown engineers and producers. The reverb effects weren’t hard to achieve in the right sized room. It could even be simulated with tape delays and such.

Norman Whitfield and Barrett Strong were the chief producers of Motown artists in that day. They were beginning to stretch out and experiment with the standard top forty format of the day. Lots of experimental things were going on in the studios, and creativity was suddenly turned up to 11 (as we used to say).


8 posted on 10/25/2014 10:49:24 PM PDT by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: FredZarguna
Intelligentsia is not a big word for FReepers.

It was meant in humor. I'm sincerely sorry if you thought it was meant derisively. It was my fault for not using an appropriate emoticon symbol. Please accept my apology.

9 posted on 10/25/2014 10:49:45 PM PDT by re_nortex (DP - that's what I like about Texas)
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To: FredZarguna

I think he meant intelligentsia was a big word alternative for FReeper, not that it was too big a word for Freepers


10 posted on 10/25/2014 10:52:23 PM PDT by Optimist
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To: Windflier
A lot of the magic you hear in there is plain old top notch editing and mixing by the Motown engineers and producers.

That was before Motown moved out of Detroit, right? In any event, after the relocation to the West Coast, the distinctive sound they had was largely lost.

One from around that same era with great instrumentation was It Takes Two - Marvin Gaye and Kim Weston, with a fine instrumental bridge.

11 posted on 10/25/2014 10:56:07 PM PDT by re_nortex (DP - that's what I like about Texas)
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To: Optimist
I think he meant intelligentsia was a big word alternative for FReeper, not that it was too big a word for Freepers.

Yes, that's what I intended. In a post a few years ago, I wrote something to the effect of "...let me ask the cognoscenti (a synonym for FReepers) here about..."

12 posted on 10/25/2014 10:58:50 PM PDT by re_nortex (DP - that's what I like about Texas)
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To: re_nortex
That was before Motown moved out of Detroit, right?

Could be, but by 1970, the recording arts had advanced by orders of magnitude over just a few years earlier. No doubt, the Motown recordings of that time were being done in state of the art studios with the latest multi-track equipment and sound processing gear.

That was a time of exponential improvement in the technology.

13 posted on 10/25/2014 11:08:31 PM PDT by Windflier (To anger a conservative, tell him a lie. To anger a liberal, tell him the truth.)
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To: Windflier
...but by 1970, the recording arts had advanced by orders of magnitude over just a few years earlier.

It's always good to converse with you Windflier, whether it be a lighter subject such as this one or the more serious issues. Thanks for filling me in and I'm glad the song brought back some memories.

14 posted on 10/25/2014 11:12:54 PM PDT by re_nortex (DP - that's what I like about Texas)
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To: re_nortex
7 Wiki is your friend.... Not so sure about it being my friend. I've read here on FR that, like Google, leftists are behind Wikipedia, so like the lamestream media, I put it squarely in the enemy camp. Nevertheless, thanks for the link.

A common issue here on FR with many viewpoints. I find Wiki to be quite helpful on technical matters and a lot of history and culture. It is especially good when you are justing looking up basic facts, e.g., names/dates/places. Sadly, 1 has to live long enough to store enough life experience in the gray matter to develop a sense when a Wiki entry is badly biased.

15 posted on 10/25/2014 11:21:45 PM PDT by MacNaughton (" If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." POTUS#16 ALincoln)
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To: re_nortex

Leftists may own and run Wiki, but the myriad of info that can be found there is invaluable if you need to know something about practically anything. Just be warned that since the users like me and you and anyone else with any agenda are free to edit articles on Wiki the political stuff there is not to be trusted.

But who’s going to lie on Wiki about a song or a musical artist? After all, it’s just trying to be an online encyclopedia.


16 posted on 10/25/2014 11:22:26 PM PDT by Bullish (A 5 year old could run the country better than Obama.)
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To: Windflier
That was a time of exponential improvement in the technology.

Furthering your point on that, here's the 1954 recording of Elvis Presley's That's Alright (Mama), recorded at the modest Sun Records studio in Memphis. It's a classic, a groundbreaking song but compared to "Papa Was a Rolling Stone" of 20 years later, the technology available to Sam Phillips was far less advanced.

That said, with today's technology, I think the type of musicianship heard on the Elvis song and later with The Temptations too often is secondary to technical virtuosity. There's something basic and just plain "good" about the spartan sound of Presley and the straightforward playing of the band (The Tennessee Two?) not altered by autotune and the rest of the modern marvels.

17 posted on 10/25/2014 11:25:29 PM PDT by re_nortex (DP - that's what I like about Texas)
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To: re_nortex

A couple of interesting facts about that song. First, the Temptations version was the second one. It was originally done by The Undisputed Truth in 1971, but didn’t do well, so the Temps redid it a year later.

Also Dennis Edwards of the Temptations at first refused to do it because of the line “It was the third of September/That day I’ll always remember/’cause that was the day/that my daddy died”. He said that was the date his dad actually did die, and thought the writers did it on purpose. He finally did the song. As it turned out he misremembered, his dad actually died on Oct. 3.


18 posted on 10/25/2014 11:30:16 PM PDT by Hugin ("Do yourself a favor--first thing, get a firearm!",)
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To: re_nortex
I have to ask the intelligentsia (a big word for FReepers)

Why do you say that? Are painting a target on yourself?

19 posted on 10/25/2014 11:30:44 PM PDT by Michael.SF. (It takes a gun to feed a village,)
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To: Bullish
Point taken. I don't go to Wikipedia of my own volition as a primary source. But when pointed to it by trusted individuals (synonymous with FReepers), I do visit such "pre-vetted" links over there. And yes, that article about the song was quite interesting, in particular this:

The Temptations did not like the fact that Whitfield's instrumentation had been getting more emphasis than their vocals...

And it was the two lengthy instrumental portions of the song that most captivated my interest.

20 posted on 10/25/2014 11:31:30 PM PDT by re_nortex (DP - that's what I like about Texas)
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