Posted on 08/01/2014 1:47:03 PM PDT by MNDude
I have a theological question that I have not heard asked before.
As we know, God gave his only Son to suffer and to die for our sins. As we can imagine, a parent seeing their son suffer must be the hardest thing possible, and the Father must have grieved greatly to see His Son suffer.
My question is, did the death itself of His son cause the Father to grieve as well?
I mean, when we humans lose a loved one, one of the biggest reasons is that this person is removed from Point A (where we are) to Point B (where we are not).
In the case of Christ, would it not be the opposite? Christ would go from Point A (not in the Father's presence)to Point B (in the Father's presence).
What are your thoughts?
Trying to guess the thoughts of God by comparing him to human traits is a difficult at best task, especially when we stray from topics not covered in the Bible.
I don’t know the answer, other than the clear theology that Jesus always existed and always will.
But I have always been interested in the “why have you forsaken me” passage.
Interesting question but has been debated theologically for years.
The Father was grieved that His chosen people rejected Him (as He knew they would) but the true grief came at something that (as far as we know) had never occurred before: that of the separation of the Father from the Son, in a manner incomprehensible to humans. The Son did not go directly to the presence of the Father, He descended into Hades to preach across the gulf to those who had not lived according to the covenant. He also went to collect those in the Bosom of Abraham and take them to the Father to await the resurrection and the creation of a new Heaven and Earth.
It’s thought by some that the darkness that prevailed at Christ’s death was because the Father could not look upon Jesus’s death so man would not be allowed to either.
That darkness was recorded as far away as Rome.
My question is, did the death itself of His son cause the Father to grieve as well?
_________________________________________________________
God willingly gave up His Son so that all may be saved. (John 3:16)
I don’t wonder at God’s greif when Christ died. I wonder at his greif now when so many reject His offer of love and grace.
Now THAT must hurt.
Act 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
Act 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
Act 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
Verse 23 shows the great dichotomy. Christ was delivered by the determinate (ordained, appointed, decreed) counsel (purpose, will) of God. Yet it was by men’s wicked hands that He was crucified and slain.
I could argue the Christ becoming man for 30 some years is meaningless in terms of his God position. He was and is always God. Yes he suffered, but he always was God.
Grief comes as a result of loss.
For God, the loss of His son (especially in the manner in which He died) was something He did not want anymore than Jesus Himself.
We will NEVER have any idea how much God grieved at the loss of His son, because it was something that He (both Father and Son) had never experienced before. It was the first time and only time that God the Father had to literally turn his back to His own Son as Jesus bared the weight of mankind’s sin.
As for grief itself, again... it is the result of loss.
For sure, I would submit that God has never grieved as much as He did when gave up His son... but it was not the first time that God grieved over loss...
I would submit that God also grieved when he lost His most prized and powerful angel... whom He had given power and dominion to over His entire heavenly host.
Of course, this was all planned from the beginning... before a single angel was created and even before the foundations of the earth was laid... God knew that there would be loss... and He knew there would be grief.
But He went forward with His plans anyway...
Because He loves us.
Jesus (God) wept at the death of Lazarus, so it’s logical to assume God the Father grieved at the death of Jesus.
There are only two times. Now and not now. Now and the negation or nonexistence of now. As nonexistence does not exist, there is only now. For God a day is as a thousand years and a thousand years a day. Eternity is always now. The Father was never without the Son. Only on time could there be a gap.
Likewise people do not go to hell forever. Just eternity.
God the Father does not suffer. He is pure spirit and does not have human emotions.
Do you still think that raindrops are God’s tears?
I am always interested when folks try to personify God the Father, because actually Christ personified God when He became man.
However God is God and as such would not grieve, implying sorrow over something He ‘had to do or had to be done’ or regret, when it is His plan to begin with.
Ad Majoram Dei Gloriam
sorry aim...
Jesus (God) did not weep over Lazarus; however, Jesus (man) certainly could.
So it is NOT logical that God the Father ‘grieved’ since it is after His Plan.
AMDG
Likewise, which is why I have a hard time accepting the fairly wide mainstream view that God and Jesus are the same entity and the clear scriptural language "only begotten Son of God" is merely rhetoric.
The thing to remember is this, God gave Himself up to be sacrificed for our sin.
“Why have you forsaken me?”
The way I understand this is, God hates sin. When Jesus took our sin on, God, no longer saw His sinless son, but
saw our filth. So He grieved, until if was finished. So
now, when we ask for forgiveness, God does not see our filth but sees His Son’s blood sacrifice.
God is Spirit but He is also Person. We are made in His image so we are spiritual but we are also made by him persons, in His image. Throughout scripture God displays Himself as Person, not as ephemeral spirit.
He says, “I am.” Not as the wind is He but as a person is He.
Scripture is FULL of God expressing His emotions! Too many to list here......any student of scripture knows this.
Emotions originated in Him and as man is created in His image, He had emotions first. Only He is pure and holy, and his emotions not affected by sin or a sinful nature. Our emotions are often - but not always - due to our sinful nature.
“My question is, did the death itself of His son cause the Father to grieve as well? “
As far as I know there is no death to God. In fact I’d say that there is nothing in the stream of time(which he invented and controls) that cannot be un-done.
The “Why hast Thou forsaken me” thing has fascinated me for decades.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.