Apple Designer Jonathan Ive on What's Next

Time ^ | March 17, 2014 | John Arlidge

[Swordmaker]

Apple's design chief helped transform computing, phones and music. The company's secrecy and Ive's modesty mean he has never given an in-depth interview—until now.

'Hello. Thanks for Coming'

We use Jonathan Ive’s products to help us to eat, drink and sleep, to work, travel, relax, read, listen and watch, to shop, chat, date and have sex. Many of us spend more time with his screens than with our families. Some of us like his screens more than our families. For years, Ive’s natural shyness, coupled with the secrecy bordering on paranoia of his employer, Apple, has meant we have known little about the man who shapes the future, with such innovations as the iMac, the iPod, the iPhone and the iPad. But last month, he invited me to Cupertino in Silicon Valley where Apple is based, for his first in-depth interview since he became head of design almost 20 years ago.

The gods — or was it the ghost of Steve Jobs? — seemed against it. Jobs didn’t like Apple execs doing interviews. It had not rained properly in California for months but that morning the clouds rolled off the Pacific, turning the Golden Gate Bridge black. Interstate 280 South to Silicon Valley was a river of water, instead of the usual lava streaks of stop-start SUVs. But just after 10AM, an Apple tech-head appeared in an all-white meeting room on the first floor of building 4 of the firm’s antiseptic headquarters with strict instructions to find an Earl Grey tea bag.

[Leonard210]

“So you claim of “ no one anywhere, for or against Apple. . .” Is exactly what, based on what?”

Holy crap Swordmaker. This article makes no mention of suicide for overtime. You can imply that they were mad about not receiving enough money for overtime, but you’d have to insert that yourself.

[Swordmaker]

Leonard, that’s just ONE example of using threats of suicide for labor advantage. I did NOT scan the.entire raft of articles, but it came out later that one of the issues the workers were upset and protesting about was the cut in available overtime opportunities in response to the company meeting the new guidelines imposed by the Fair Labor Association. . . go find it yourself!!!! Sheesh! There are literally hundreds of stories on these labor suicide threat stories, and some went into detailed in depth analysis of the workers concerns. I read them. . . and if you will NOTICE this was a Microsoft Xbox assembly plant just as I told you! Not an Apple assembly plant! Quit picking at nits. I told you, I am not going to hand you everything I know, or the sources on a silver platter. . . you would STILL find some nit to pick even if I presented it with everything wrapped up with a red satin bow! Find it for yourself, then you’ll know its a fact! I’m not going to spend the time digging it out for you. I did this one to hoist you on your petard because I’m tired of your arrogant attitude. . . and you needed hoisting. I see I wasted my time.

[Leonard210]

The facts that are available to normal humans on this internet thingy do not back up your assertion that kids were threatening suicide because they wanted more overtime.

You claim Apple does better. I’m with you. Thank you Apple for making sure that Chinese workers have better conditions and wages that those Xbox makers.

[Leonard210]

“I am not going to hand you everything I know, or the sources on a silver platter. . . you would STILL find some nit to pick even if I presented it with everything wrapped up with a red satin bow!”

How absurd. Delusional. You can’t make this stuff up! You’re a scream Swordmaker. No wonder you attract trolls.

[Leonard210]

It’s Command-C and Command-V on a Mac.

[Leonard210]

“After a thorough, independent investigation found significant issues with working conditions at three factories in China operated by Apple’s major supplier Foxconn, the Fair Labor Association secured groundbreaking commitments that will reduce working hours to legal limits while protecting pay, improve health and safety conditions, establish a genuine voice for workers, and will monitor on an ongoing basis to verify compliance. The nearly month-long investigation found excessive overtime and problems with overtime compensation; several health and safety risks; and crucial communication gaps that have led to a widespread sense of unsafe working conditions among workers.”

from Fair Labor Association
http://www.fairlabor.org/blog/entry/fair-labor-association-secures-commitment-limit-workers-hours-protect-pay-apples-largest

Apple is an Affiliate of Fair Labor Association which makes them a Democratic Corporation using the criteria you established earlier.

Um, no mention of kids jumping out windows because they wanted MORE overtime. As expected, this report claims that Apple agreed to “reduce working hours to legal limits while protecting pay, improve health and safety conditions, establish a genuine voice for workers”.

You believe that you read somewhere that the reduction in hours was the cause of threatened suicides. I don’t doubt you, but you’ve bombastically claimed that it was a “fact” easily verified by independent research. Oh, and then you peppered it with insults.

[Leonard210]

“I did this one to hoist you on your petard because I’m tired of your arrogant attitude. . . and you needed hoisting. I see I wasted my time.”

This report by the Fair Labor Association (link below and in previous post) indicates that everything you’ve been saying in this thread is demonstrably false.

There were problems with working hours AND working conditions at the Foxconn plant that makes Apple products.

Why would you be so insulting when you knew that you were so off base?

www.fairlabor.org/blog/entry/fair-labor-association-secures-commitment-limit-workers-hours-protect-pay-apples-largest

[Swordmaker]

You believe that you read somewhere that the reduction in hours was the cause of threatened suicides. I don’t doubt you, but you’ve bombastically claimed that it was a “fact” easily verified by independent research. Oh, and then you peppered it with insults.

I don't "believe" I read something, somewhere. . . I watched the interviews with leaders of the suicide threateners lay out their complaints. Have you READ all of the articles on the issue? I did when this was going on. , , the report of the Fair labor Association RESULTED in the cuts the workers were upset about. Their PAY OPPORTUNITIES were not as great when they could not work as many overtime hours as they wanted when to appease the international busybodies, workers were suddenly limited to a specific number per day, week, and month. I found it a humorous example of unintended consequences of "do-gooderism" at the time and posted links at the time to the interviews of the workers' complaints. THIS HAPPENED, and you can sputter all you want. The liberal press is trying hard to cover their tracks, but, Leonard, it is the truth!

[Leonard210]

Thank you for the clarification. I will be issuing the report you requested in Blogs and Personal very soon. I will be sure to send you a notice.

[Sir_Ed]

Large files transfer quicker to the old MP internal drives than to our new TB LaCie external drive...

See ya’,

Ed

[Swordmaker]

Posts from me to you. And vice verse...

#27 First post me to you: No comment about you personally, recapping review of a study I did reviewing 10 years of political donations (2001-2010) by Apple corporation, Steve Jobs, Apple Employees’ PAC vis-a-vis Microsoft, Intel, Dell, HP. PLUS Recap of a published article on readers of NYTimes and computer use v. Political slant. My take on a conservative slant to actual policies implemented by Steve Jobs and Apple on careers, porn, etc.

#48 you to me: misrepresenting my entire factual post into one claim that I was claiming I was blaming the employees. Then claimed the reason manufacturing was moved to China to avoid EPA regulations in absence of other economic reasons. . . despite fact that Apple was the last major computer maker to do so. Next you raised the need for a minimum wage as though that were a paragon conservative issue. Then you were critical of Apple’s overseas profits on which taxes had been already paid where they’d been earned as though there was something vile about not voluntarily paying taxes they did not owe, a claim only being made by LIBERAL DEMOCRATS who want to get their greedy hands on it. Then you added your general screed against “St. Steve” filled with half-truths and rumors based on years of FUD.

#70 me to you: replied to your mis-information with facts. Stated that Apple moved to “remain competitive.” Told you well known facts about Apple requiring the clean up of the plants building their products. In most cases, the plants exceeded EPA standards. If Apple moved to avoid standards, why require more, when it is NOT required at the new location? I then outlined Apple’s contractual requirements for pay and labor standards for companies building their products. . . and the contractor’s obligations toward any underage workers found. Finally, I presented the known factual data on the tax issues that has been published in even the main stream media such as Forbes, the Wall Street Journal, and other legitimate sources. . . but ignored by the liberal FUD spreading editorial writers and Democrat Senators that you echoed. BUT, so far not a single insult to you, personal attack, or slur, not even a denigration of your erroneous opinions.

#72 you to me: a post dripping with sarcastic strawman misrepresentations of my comments, claiming you said things I did not attribute to you, so you could shoot them down, such as “And I never said they paid zero taxes, only that if you’re going to send money to Democrats and then turn around and try to shield even a part of your earnings from taxes, you’re worse than a hypocrite.” The people who brought up the tax issues against Apple—that YOU claimed as your own, thereby accepting their arguments—did INDEED haul Tim Cook before Congress, claiming Apple paid ZERO taxes, when the facts show Apple pays more taxes than 60% of the companies listed on the New York and NASDAQ stock exchanges combined!!! Yet YOU ran with the FUD about “parking profits offshore to avoid taxes” when it is easy to learn that’s false. . . but I didn’t attack YOU, I only provided the correct information. YOU got insulted because you were proved wrong by someone who disagreed with your opinion. . . so you got derisive and sarcastic. It’s obvious in this post.

#95 me to you: I merely challenged you to prove your assertions viv-a-vis “staying competitive” means fleeing EPA regulations, that the standards Apple imposed on the Chinese plants wouldn’t pass muster in the USA, and that Apple “paid the Democrats” to create those EPA regulations. Plus everything else in post #72. A challenge you’ve ignored. . . which, Leonard, is unfortunately typical of trolls. Still no insults, slurs, or invective from me to you.

#100 you to me: you want to define a well understood term and principle in business and economics according to your narrow experience. . . from a labor union viewpoint, a viewpoint that seems indistinguishable from that which would be taken by a Democrat. You complain I haven’t defined this standard, well defined principle.

#101 me to you: I give some of the economic reasons a company, specifically Apple, moved their manufacturing to China. Also decrying growth of regulation under both Republican and Democrat administrations. . . neither is blameless. Still no attacks, insults, etc.

#103 you to me: another derision, sarcasm loaded, misrepresentative of what I wrote to you post. I did NOT redefine “what it means to ‘stay competitive’” but you demonstrated your woeful lack of knowledge of business principles and economics. You then used one example Steve Jobs used with Barack Obama as a reason why the jobs cannot be brought back as the singular reason Apple is in China. . . when I gave several. THEN you claim I didn’t provide any more quotations from Steve Jobs’ THREE HOUR meeting with Obama. . . as though that were a failing on my part. . . and that I don’t have a transcript of that meeting. No one does. But both Jobs and Obama released press releases on what was discussed and it’s covered in Jobs’ biography. . . Where there are lots of quotations from that meeting. Your posts are critical... And demeaning because you want ME to do your study for you. Why would you accuse me of “acting like there was only one sentence uttered” when I neither implied or uttered any such thing. . . Another misrepresentation which I cannot help but think is deliberate.

#105 me to you: rhetorical question about your positions and membership in the Democrat party. Mild rebuke. . . A bit sarcastic.

#106 me to you: my comment about Apple not building a factory in China. You have been implying Apple were paying the workers, building factories, doing everything they could not do here, there. I corrected the misinformation. No insults.

#107 you to me: your background experience with bad bosses. Gratuitous insult to me implying I only get my information from Apple releases. . . claim I’m weird. Quite insulting...

#108 you to me: you insult me with derisive term “genius”. . . More derision. . . questioning of facts with sarcasm. Sad.

#109 me to you: I question your knowledge of Apple’s Chinese manufacturing using “genius” back at you. . . And explain how the contract model works for Apple and others. I suggest you get educated about Apple. Staying ignorant is stupid.

#110 me to you: my response to your implication my information comes solely from Apple press releases. Tell you I use primary sources.

#111 you to me: again you exaggerate what I said, making a strawman for you to whack at. Snarky and snide, you ask a rhetoric question which shows you have not bothered to consider the truth of anything I’ve told you. It means I’m wasting my valuable time. Insulting.

#112 you to me: belittling and snarky. “Such a cute way with words.” Designed to make me angry. Doesn’t work. Again, “primary sources.” Look it up.

#113 you to me: more snark. Your premise about minimum wage avoidance. Please show that Apple EVER paid anyone minimum wage—anywhere. . . Apple store workers start at around $13 an hour. . . workers at Apple assembly plant in the USA were up to $30 starting wages in the 1990s. . . so how do they “avoid minimum wage laws” when they don’t hire people who earn minimum wages???? Your premise is flawed from the start. Your attitude is one of superior knowledge, when you don’t have it. You have assumptions. You ask how it works I think you act like a Democrat

#114 me to you: I explain primary sources. . . And lay out your factual errors, again.

#116 me to you: I explain why you act like a Democrat. I ask why you allowed yourself to be abused by bosses. No insults.

#117 you to me: you again misrepresent my comment by setting up a strawman to knock down about Apple press releases. More snarkiness.

#118 me to you: I criticize you snark. Suggest you stop. Ask you to stop putting words in my mouth. . . Which on this review, I find you have a serious, shall we say Alinsky, tendency to do. . . having counted at least TEN occasions where you exaggerated my comments into something I did not say so you could distort them to counter them. Bad form, but the exact method Liberals use.

#119 you to me: now you escalate my comments from “creepy” to “dishonest.” Very insulting. You then question my job history: “real job?” Seriously?

#120 you to me: you accuse me of name calling. But I have gone through 22 exchanges between you and I and the closest I have come to calling you a name is suggesting you might be acting like a Democrat and that you are ignorant, a curable state, about Apple, a condition which I have diligently tried to cure. You on the other hand, have insulted me repeatedly. . . Both implied and directly. You then compound the sin of implying things I have NOT said or intended to mean. You even use quotes around your false things imputed to me. Then you accuse me of lying about you when I’ve said nothing about you!

Now, Leonard, I’ve spent far too much time on this and there are more posts. . . . But YOU won’t care. I have read every word and I have not called you names. I have disagreed with your “facts” and have presented the truth. You choose to nitpick. . . demanding I providing you links and extraordinary evidence to data that is actually easily found. I’ve been down this road too many times before. I’m just not going to do it again. No amount of evidence will work. Your mind is closed.

[Swordmaker]

From Reuters:

Reuters - "When Chinese worker Wu Jun heard that her employer, the giant electronics assembly company Foxconn, had given employees landmark concessions her reaction was worry, not elation.

Foxconn's concessions, including cutting overtime for its 1.2 million mainland Chinese workers while promising compensation that protects them against losing income, were backed by Apple, which has faced criticism and media scrutiny for worker safety lapses and for using relatively low-paid employees to make high-cost phones, computers and other gadgets.

But at the Foxconn factory gates, many workers seemed unconvinced that their pay wouldn't be cut along with their hours. For some Chinese factory workers - who make much of their income from long hours of overtime - the idea of less work for the same pay could take getting used to.

"We are worried we will have less money to spend. Of course, if we work less overtime, it would mean less money," said Wu, a 23-year-old employee from Hunan province in south China.

"We are here to work and not to play, so our income is very important," said Chen Yamei, 25, a Foxconn worker from Hunan who said she had worked at the factory for four years.

"We have just been told that we can only work a maximum of 36 hours a month of overtime. I tell you, a lot of us are unhappy with this. We think that 60 hours of overtime a month would be reasonable and that 36 hours would be too little," she added. Chen said she now earned a bit over 4,000 yuan a month ($634).

[Swordmaker]

Ed, that doesn't answer my questions. The transfer rates do not make sense if that's the case. . . what kind of drives are in the LaCie drive and how is it connected??

If your LaCie is connected to your MacPro via a Thunderbolt connection, someone is doing something wrong. The thunderbolt connection is capable of four times the speed of the PCIe and SATA Speed. The specs of the LaCie itself—if it comes with the drives they intend and Thunderbolt—can't reach the 1250 MBs per second Thunderbolt-1 is capable of reaching as they claim only 768MBs per second, but that's twice the speed of the drives in the MacPro direct connect theoretical transfer rate.

Is it possible your LaCie is connected via USB 3.0??? Then I'd see why you are getting the results you tell us you're getting. Thunderbolt is even faster than Fibre channel. . . and the MacPro has Thunderbolt 2, with twice the speed at 20,000 Mbits/second.

[Leonard210]

You’re absolutely correct. My apologies.

[Leonard210]

There you go, you were right all along. So sorry.

[Sir_Ed]

I don’t know.

I’m not at the office right now, so I can’t check. I don’t think it’s USB 3, but am not 100% positive.

I’ll check it out Monday.

I do know the internal hard drives were blinding fast...updated Raptors, I think...or some such.

See ya’,

Ed

[Swordmaker]

I suspect your IT department went cheap. . . and you’re connected by USB 2 or 3. And they may have gotten a LaCie USB box as well. The Raptors were probably 10,000 RPM, so would be very fast, but the bus speed is still a limiting factor. Let me know. . .

[Sir_Ed]

Will do!

See ya’,

Ed

[Leonard210]

Your post number 191 is the most bizarre rewrite of history I’ve ever seen and contained no actual quotes but simply your re-imagining each post as your superior emotionless recitation of facts against my vile invective, dripping with sarcasm, etc, etc. It’s my opinion that failure to post accurate quotes in context is simply a high-tech way to bear false witness.

In the first couple of exchanges you signaled your intention to Appeal to Authority by posting your assertions with no links. And as I correctly stated, you immediately moved into insults and condescension. You didn’t list any of my horrible horribleness yet, which is to your credit, because there was none.

#70 After making a massive Appeal to Authority with no supporting documentation for any of your statements you concluded with these gentle words: “These are all easily discovered facts. . . Not your myths and propaganda [Simple Insult] which is in reality the junk pushed by Liberals. Look who was pushing that TAX stuff accusing Apple of paying ZERO TAXES when it was a total fabrication. . . liberal Democrats!” [Straw Man, Guilt by Association which you clarified in #191 “a claim only being made by LIBERAL DEMOCRATS”]

Right out of the gate you decided to run with insults in the form of, well insults and a straw man attempting to link me to LIBERAL DEMOCRATS. Not vern original but very far from the glowing self-assessment that, “I have read every word and I have not called you names.”

[Leonard210]

“#70 me to you:...so far not a single insult to you, personal attack, or slur, not even a denigration of your erroneous opinions.”

That’s how you characterized a post that you insisted was entirely factual (it was not) only to be met with my myths and propaganda that only a liberal Dem would make.

“...not a single insult...or slur...not even a denigration of your erroneous opinions.”

It’s plain to see why you’d have to try to rewrite your posts. If any one of the people who you whine about at FR bothers to research your actual statements, they’ll discover that the real truth about Apple is quite different from the Apple PR that you insist are independent facts.