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"I'm no hero, I'm just doing my job in a bad situation,"...Clyde Kawasaki....
KITV Channel 4 News ^ | Dec 18, 2013 11:11 AM HST | KITV Channel 4 News

Posted on 12/18/2013 7:01:10 PM PST by WhiskeyX

HONOLULU —"I'm no hero, I'm just doing my job in a bad situation," said Makani Kai Air pilot Clyde Kawasaki at a news conference Wednesday morning. [....] The salvage operation for the Makani Kai plane that crashed off Kalaupapa last week will end at nightfall today, no matter what is retrieved or not retrieved. The boat should be back in port in Honolulu by Thursday morning.

(Excerpt) Read more at kitv.com ...


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: fuddy; kawasaki; naturalborncitizen; ntsb; recovery
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To: WhiskeyX

They were not panicked. My computer has decided it’s time for me to go to bed, lost what I was going to post with links. But Holstein described the situation as calm and orderly, and that everybody was doing fine 0 that Jacob Key had been able to get the main door open and people just stepped off the plane as if it was a swimming pool. The rescuers reported that everybody was doing fine and calm.

Holstein noted that Yamamoto was taking care of Fuddy but that Fuddy wasn’t showing any signs of distress. How did Yamamoto know she was in distress? Why didn’t he tell anybody that she was in distress? He seems to be the only one who wasn’t surprised that she died, and knew of her distress before she exhibited any outward signs that were observed by anybody else.


21 posted on 12/18/2013 10:52:24 PM PST by butterdezillion (Free online faxing at http://faxzero.com/ Fax all your elected officials. Make DC listen.)
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To: butterdezillion

Given the circumstances it wasn’t like they could take time to pause and have a prolonged inquiry about whether or not Fudday was in any condition to get into the sea. It was pretty obvious they were all going to be stepping into the sea or go down with a sinking aircraft. Kawasaki’s remarks make it pretty clear that once they stepped into the sea, they were immediately swept away from the aircraft and farther out to sea by currents that separated the groups.

As can be seen with the descriptions from the Air Force Air Sea Rescue Website, swimming even in these tropical waters can become very exhausting very quickly, especially in those sea conditions with whitecaps on the high waves and notoriously strong currents in that channel. Yamamoto and Fuddy likely had all they could do trying to keep their heads and beathing outside of the breaking waves and hang onto each other, much less try to keep together with the other separated survivors. If Fuddy lost consciousness, it would have been a difficult task to hold onto her in that strong current even for a young and athletic swimmer. Yamamoto was probably rapidly becoming exhausted as it was. Note how the rescuers described the condition o the survivors as they were found:

EXCLUSIVE: 2 survivors in Molokai plane crash speak out....
The rescue team members told us all of the survivors were outside the aircraft when they arrived on scene... Each floating ..holding tight on to their life jackets ... And fighting for their lives. ...He spotted two groups of people floating in the ocean... one.. a half mile from shore ...the other ...about a mile out. The survivors, floating face up, clinging to life jackets, clearly exhausted. Rescue swimmer Pj ornot first spotted State health director Loretta Fuddy...he touched and shook her but with no response.. protocol meant move on. The next person he saw was an elderly woman about a hundred yards away from Fuddy. pj ornot 52 SHE WAS TIRED EXHAUSTED I GOT UP VERY CLOSE TO HER BEFORE SHE BOTHERED TO MORE OVER TO LOOK AT ME AT ALL 58 She was hoisted up and the next saved .. was a man with a cut on his head. . As the next U.S. Coast guard rescue team arrived.. Rescue swimmer Mark Peer looked down at the water from the aircraft..and saw a a good sign... a big wave from a man in his 70s. Mark Peer 1625 I GOT IN THE WATER SWAM UP TO HIM SAID HEY SIR COAST GUARD RESCUE SWIMMER AND HE JUST LOOKED OVER AND SMILED TO IT WAS A GOOD FEELING. I GRABBED HIS ARM AND HE GRABBED ME BACK AND SINGLED THE HELICOPTER TO SEND DOWN THE BASKET 38 The next person he retrieved was one the first rescuer had to pass up....Director Fuddy. 1821 SHE WAS UNRESPONSIVE AT WHICH POINT I CHECK FOR A PULSE WHICH I COULDN’T FIND A PULSE...
http://www.kitv.com/news/hawaii/a-us-coast-guard-rescue-swimmer-describes-the-crash-scene-as-surreal/-/8905354/23462950/-/ycwwwuz/-/index.html


22 posted on 12/18/2013 11:24:31 PM PST by WhiskeyX ( provides a system for registering complaints about unfair broadcasters and the ability to request a)
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To: WhiskeyX

An earlier report that used Mark Peer as the primary source had him saying that the victims were not panicked. They were glad to see help there, but they weren’t panicked. And he said the weather wasn’t bad; the bigger difficulty was keeping the 6 aircraft from crashing into each other.

So the various accounts give totally different pictures. You’re describing the chaos and stress, but Holstein talked about how calm and orderly it all was.

Fuddy and Kawasaki had more insulation from the cold than your average military guy, I would bet. And I would bet that the guys who died from hypothermia not only had less body insulation but were also in colder water and/or for longer than 30-60 minutes.

One of the reports said that those who were taken to the hospital on Molokai took hot showers and got their clothes dried. That makes sense because they probably were cold in their wet clothes, especially with the wind. But if the ideal comfortable temperature for a swimming pool for non-active users is 78-82 degrees, 77-78-degree water would take a while to cause hypothermia. Or at least that’s how it seems to me. I’m not an expert though, obviously.


23 posted on 12/18/2013 11:39:37 PM PST by butterdezillion (Free online faxing at http://faxzero.com/ Fax all your elected officials. Make DC listen.)
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To: WhiskeyX

Thank you. That’s very helpful information. I didn’t know about keeping the arms and legs out of the warm water when warming up somebody with hypothermia.

The list says that water 70-80 degrees could cause exhaustion or unconsciousness in 3-12 hours. They were out there in the water sometime between 30-60 minutes, and Fuddy became unresponsive early enough during that timespan that she drifted 200 yards from the others.


24 posted on 12/18/2013 11:51:40 PM PST by butterdezillion (Free online faxing at http://faxzero.com/ Fax all your elected officials. Make DC listen.)
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To: butterdezillion
“An earlier report that used Mark Peer as the primary source had him saying that the victims were not panicked. They were glad to see help there, but they weren't’t panicked. And he said the weather wasn't’t bad; the bigger difficulty was keeping the 6 aircraft from crashing into each other.”

“So the various accounts give totally different pictures. You’re describing the chaos and stress, but Holstein talked about how calm and orderly it all was.”

Reconcile that with the other statements from the rescuers in the same news story.

“The rescue team members told us all of the survivors were outside the aircraft when they arrived on scene... Each floating ..holding tight on to their life jackets ... And fighting for their lives. 526 WE DIDN'T SEE AN AIRCRAFT IN THE WATER THERE WAS ALREADY SOME DEBRIS Lt. Weston Red Elk was the pilot of the first U.S. Coast Guard helicopter on scene... THE H60 FROM THE NAVY HAD PREVIOUSLY DROPPED TWO SMOKE FLOATS IN THE WATER WHICH GAVE US IMMEDIATE RECOGNITION OF WHERE THE SURVIVORS WERE 534 Hovering about 40 feet above water...He spotted two groups of people floating in the ocean... one.. a half mile from shore ...the other ...about a mile out. The survivors, floating face up, clinging to life jackets, clearly exhausted.”

Note how the reporter says, “the survivors were outside the aircraft when they arrived on scene... Each floating ..holding tight on to their life jackets ... And fighting for their lives...The survivors, floating face up, clinging to life jackets, clearly exhausted.”

From this we are left with the impression that by the time the first Coast Guard helicopter arrived on the scene, piloted by Lt. Weston Red Elk, the survivors were “fighting for their lives...The survivors, floating face up, clinging to life jackets, clearly exhausted.”

Rescue swimmer P.J. Ornot said about an elderly woman, “ SHE WAS TIRED EXHAUSTED I GOT UP VERY CLOSE TO HER BEFORE SHE BOTHERED TO MORE OVER TO LOOK AT ME AT ALL.

Mark Peer, “I GOT IN THE WATER SWAM UP TO HIM SAID HEY SIR COAST GUARD RESCUE SWIMMER AND HE JUST LOOKED OVER AND SMILED TO IT WAS A GOOD FEELING. I GRABBED HIS ARM AND HE GRABBED ME BACK AND SINGLED [signaled] THE HELICOPTER TO SEND DOWN THE BASKET

Does this mean those survivors were necessarily panicked? No, but they certainly had to be under a serious amount of stress if they were literally “fighting for their lives” and “clinging to life jackets, clearly exhausted.” If anything, the survivors’ minimal reactions to the arrival of the rescue swimmers suggests the survivors’ were suffering the torpor experienced in the early stages of hypothermia.

Does the situation have to be one of “chaos” in order for the survivors to experience stress and perhaps lethal results? No, certainly not.

You said, “but Holstein talked about how calm and orderly it all was.”

That is true as far as it goes. However, Phil Hollstein was talking about how “ calm and orderly” the passengers’ evacuation of the aircraft took place. This is not inconsistent with Fuddy having suffered no serious injuries or suffered safety belt injuries that had not yet been recognized as serious as they stepped out of the sinking aircraft. From what pilot Clyde Kawasaki had to say, the passengers were evacuating themselves from the sinking aircraft even before he became aware of their departures:

He described his initial observations from the cockpit after the plane hit the ocean.

“I remember lurching off to one side, hitting my head, one of the first things I saw in the cockpit was blood all over the place. That's when I discovered I had a small gash,” he indicated as he pointed to a stitched wound on his head.

Leaving the cockpit, Kawasaki says the water was already up to his waist. He then checked the plane to make sure his eight passengers had left the plane then started removing seat cushions to use as flotation devices.

Once out of the plane, he said he could not locate any of the cushions he had removed. He spotted a cooler floating in the water, but couldn't reach it because of the ocean conditions.

“The wind and the wave conditions were so bad, I couldn't catch it. No way,” he said. “It was horrible.”

“Fuddy and Kawasaki had more insulation from the cold than your average military guy, I would bet. And I would bet that the guys who died from hypothermia not only had less body insulation but were also in colder water and/or for longer than 30-60 minutes.”

Yes, but you are looking at this only from the point of view of their core body temperatures. Hypothermia is also caused by and/or causes a number of other critical medical complications that can result in death in short or long periods of time.

Seat Belt Injury Symptoms
Last Updated: Aug 16, 2013 | By Linda Ray

“Seat belt injuries may not always seem immediately obvious. There are symptoms to watch for following an accident that can indicate further damages from the seat belt.”

Bleeding
“Blood in the urine or stools can indicate internal damage caused by the pressure of the seat belt.”

Weakness
“Weakness in the legs can result from damage to the lower back, the abdomen or spinal nerves.... General feelings of dizziness or weakness could indicate symptoms of shock or internal organ damage.”

Bruising
“When the seat belt is pulled in a crash, bruising and muscle strains can occur in the area over which the seat belt was tugged....”

Breathing Difficulties
“When a person has trouble breathing following an accident, they may have sustained damage to the organs in their chest from the pressure of the set belt. Heart or lung damage can make breathing difficult.”

Stiff Neck
“While a person may become sore from the pressure of the seat belt, lingering signs of more serious damage to the neck should be monitored....”

Abdominal Pain
“When the seat belt crosses the kidneys and delivers a serious blunt force, the first symptoms include abdominal pain and pain in the area between the hips and ribs, report doctors at Merck. Low blood pressure and anemia can result from the blood loss. Untreated, kidney damage can lead to delayed bleeding, infections and kidney failure.”

See:
http://www.livestrong.com/article/111530-seat-belt-injury-symptoms/

Note how the above seat belt injuries include “symptoms of shock or internal organ damage...Heart or lung damage can make breathing difficult...Low blood pressure....”

Then look at the causes of circulatory shock and its risks.

Mayo Clinic.
Shock: First aid

Shock may result from trauma, heatstroke, blood loss, an allergic reaction, severe infection, poisoning, severe burns or other causes. When a person is in shock, his or her organs aren't getting enough blood or oxygen. If untreated, this can lead to permanent organ damage or death.
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/first-aid-shock/FA00056

Shock (circulatory)From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Circulatory shock, commonly known simply as shock, is a life-threatening medical condition that occurs due to inadequate substrate for aerobic cellular respiration.[1] In the early stages this is generally an inadequate tissue level of oxygen.[2]

The typical signs of shock are low blood pressure, a rapid heartbeat and signs of poor end-organ perfusion or “decompensation/peripheral shut down” (such as low urine output, confusion or loss of consciousness). There are times that a person's blood pressure may remain stable, but may still be in circulatory shock, so it is not always a sign.[3]

Circulatory shock is not related to the emotional state of shock. Circulatory shock is a life-threatening medical emergency and one of the most common causes of death for critically ill people. Shock can have a variety of effects, all with similar outcomes, but all relate to a problem with the body's circulatory system. For example, shock may lead to hypoxemia (a lack of oxygen in arterial blood) or cardiac arrest.[4]

One of the key dangers of shock is that it progresses by a positive feedback mechanism. Once shock begins, it tends to make itself worse, so immediate treatment of shock is critical to the survival of the sufferer.[3]

Hypovolemia is a direct loss of effective circulating blood volume leading to:

* A rapid, weak, thready pulse due to decreased blood flow combined with tachycardia
* Cool, clammy skin due to vasoconstriction and stimulation of vasoconstriction
* Rapid and shallow breathing due to sympathetic nervous system stimulation and acidosis
* Hypothermia due to decreased perfusion and evaporation of sweat
* Thirst and dry mouth, due to fluid depletion
* Cold and mottled skin (Livedo reticularis), especially extremities, due to insufficient perfusion of the skin
The severity of hemorrhagic shock can be graded on a 1-4 scale on the physical signs. This approximates to the effective loss of blood volume.

Hypovolemic[edit]Hypovolemic shock is the most common type of shock and is caused by insufficient circulating volume.[2] Its primary cause is hemorrhage (internal and/or external), or loss of fluid from the circulation. Vomiting and diarrhea are the most common cause in children.[1] With other causes including burns, environmental exposure and excess urine loss due to diabetic ketoacidosis and diabetes insipidus.[1

Cardiogenic shock is caused by the failure of the heart to pump effectively.[2] This can be due to damage to the heart muscle, most often from a large myocardial infarction. Other causes of cardiogenic shock include dysrhythmias, cardiomyopathy/myocarditis, congestive heart failure (CHF), contusio cordis, or cardiac valve problems.[1]

Distributive shock includes infectious, anaphylactic, Endocrine and neurogenic causes....

Differential diagnosis

Shock is a common end point of many medical conditions.[1] It has been divided into four main types based on the underlying cause: hypovolemic, distributive, cardiogenic and obstructive.[10] A few additional classifications are occasionally used including: endocrinologic shock.[1]

Hypovolemic
Hypovolemic shock is the most common type of shock and is caused by insufficient circulating volume.[2] Its primary cause is hemorrhage (internal and/or external), or loss of fluid from the circulation. ...other causes including...environmental exposure....[1]

Cardiogenic[edit]Cardiogenic shock is caused by the failure of the heart to pump effectively.[2] This can be due to damage to the heart muscle, most often from a large myocardial infarction. Other causes of cardiogenic shock include dysrhythmias, cardiomyopathy/myocarditis, congestive heart failure (CHF), contusio cordis, or cardiac valve problems.[1]

Obstructive[edit]Obstructive shock is due to obstruction of blood flow outside of the heart.[2] Several conditions can result in this form of shock.

Cardiac tamponade[1] in which fluid in the pericardium prevents inflow of blood into the heart (venous return). Constrictive pericarditis, in which the pericardium shrinks and hardens, is similar in presentation.
Tension pneumothorax[1] Through increased intrathoracic pressure, bloodflow to the heart is prevented (venous return).
Pulmonary embolism is the result of a thromboembolic incident in the blood vessels of the lungs and hinders the return of blood to the heart.
Aortic stenosis hinders circulation by obstructing the ventricular outflow tract
Distributive[edit]Distributive shock is due to impaired utilization of oxygen and thus production of energy by the cell.[2] Examples of this form of shock are:

Septic shock is the most common cause of distributive shock.[1] Caused by an overwhelming systemic infection resulting in vasodilation leading to hypotension....
High spinal injuries may cause neurogenic shock.[11] The classic symptoms include a slow heartrate due to loss of cardiac sympathetic tone and warm skin due to dilation of the peripheral blood vessels....[11]

Prognosis[edit]The prognosis of shock depends on the underlying cause and the nature and extent of concurrent problems. Hypovolemic, anaphylactic and neurogenic shock are readily treatable and respond well to medical therapy. Septic shock however, is a grave condition with a mortality rate between 30% and 50%. The prognosis of cardiogenic shock is even worse.[20]

See:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shock_(circulatory)

As can be seen from the above sources, there are a variety of ways in which seat belt injuries, internal haemorrhaging, exposure to the environment or elements such as prolonged immersion in seawater, can induce or exacerbate hypothermia and various pre-existing health problems which may in turn result in fatal circulatory shock in some individuals and not others. So, hypothermia is not the only factor to be considered as a likely contributor to Fuddy’s death while the other passengers survived the event.

“One of the reports said that those who were taken to the hospital on Molokai took hot showers and got their clothes dried. That makes sense because they probably were cold in their wet clothes, especially with the wind. But if the ideal comfortable temperature for a swimming pool for non-active users is 78-82 degrees, 77-78-degree water would take a while to cause hypothermia. Or at least that’s how it seems to me. I’m not an expert though, obviously.”

Yes, it would in a swimming pool. But the struggle to keep your head above water to breathe and hang on to the flotation device in the high waves produced by a moderate breeze and strong sea current in that channel exacts a tremendous penalty in energy and loss of body heat you do not experience in the swimming pool. The result is a more rapid loss of body heat, and core temperature, lowered blood pressure, and less oxygen for perfusion in the extremities. The uninjured and more healthy individuals may remain conscious for the more typical 2 to 3 hours, while a person who has suffered a seat belt injury and/or is already having serious health problems affecting the circulatory system may suffer circulatory shock and a fatal cascade of problems resulting in unconsciousness, cardiac failure, and death within the Golden Hour.

25 posted on 12/19/2013 3:15:18 AM PST by WhiskeyX ( provides a system for registering complaints about unfair broadcasters and the ability to request a)
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To: Cicero
What I find very strange is that they will stop looking for the plane at nightfall whether or not they have found it. Then the National Transportation Safety Board “will continue investigating the crash to try to determine a cause.” How on earth will they do that if they don’t bother to keep looking for the plane?

Good question...

26 posted on 12/19/2013 7:37:14 AM PST by GOPJ ("Remember who the real enemy is... ")
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To: WhiskeyX
Cause everyone seemed fine when they got out of the airplane.

I have a major problem with that statement, coupled with this from here

The pilot reportedly observed eight-(8) people wearing life jackets floating in a field of debris at the approximate location where the plane struck the water. Initial news reports also stated that Ms. Fuddy failed to escape the passenger compartment of the plane, which would support the first and perhaps the most credible eyewitness account, as it came from a trained pilot circling the crash site. An initial statement by the Maui Fire Department also supports the report that Ms. Fuddy never made it out of the plane.

And if there's any doubt about that:

A statement was also made by Honolulu Fire Capt. Terry Seelig, who first reported that there was a fatality, according to KHON News.

That person remained in the fuselage of the plane. Not much details. Always a difficult situation when you can’t get everyone out, and unfortunately that was the case here.”

Major conflict in account; more analysis at the link. Either the pilot is an idiot, Capt. Seelig is an idiot, someone's lying...or journalism is suspect; I vote the latter. Of course, until the investigation is complete any one is a possibility and I'll let others with more time than I work on that...though I am highly suspicious that this may have been an intentional obfuscation of facts once it was realized the fatality was Fuddy to create another conspiratorial distraction (a 'crisis', if you will). The question is, 'by which side' (there are more than 2 here).

On that basis, from here

In the final moments of her life, Fuddy clung to the hand of her deputy, Keith Yamamoto, while floating in the water. Fuddy, who gained notoriety in 2011 for her role in making President Barack Obama's birth certificate public, held hands with Yamamoto as he tried to help her relax, said the Rev. Patrick Killilea, who consoled Yamamoto after the ordeal.

Unless someone can show that that account was a total fabrication, I am sick & tired of being manupulated by those that cherry-pick facts and then write what can only be described as 'op-eds' (or worse, fiction).

As far as the nature of this particular post goes, Kawasaki's 'not a hero' comment is in response to this.

Without regard to all the conspiracy-theories on Fuddy's death, if you're to have an opinion on this post, you cannot rely on the linked story; you MUST watch the video report. I think the man deserves credit, but the investigation is far from complete.

27 posted on 12/19/2013 8:31:54 AM PST by logi_cal869
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To: WhiskeyX

The stuff you’re describing doesn’t match what was experienced by any of the other passengers - least of all Kawasaki, who is himself a large man who may have health issues similar to Fuddy, but who also experienced blood loss that she didn’t, a bang to the head that she apparently didn’t, AND he didn’t have a life jacket.

How exactly does a person “hold on tight” to their life jacket? The description in other accounts was that the survivors were floating on their backs. Fuddy had been dead for some time, unable to “hold on tight” to anything, and was floating just like the others when they found her - even to the extent that none of the others thought there was any problem with her.

The article citing Mark Peer that I was referencing was an earlier one - before they started trying to make it sound like it was sheer madness trying to survive. It seems like now we know Fuddy didn’t die in the crash but died of other causes afterwards, the reports are painting a totally different picture - stuff like the implication that they had to “hold on for dear life” to cushions, which would only be necessary if they didn’t have life jackets on. But the way the crash was noticed was because they had yellow life jackets on.

As time goes on, it seems like people are trying to change history. And that also raises red flags to me. Discrepancies that people have to work hard to unscramble always work to the benefit of those trying to hide something. As with everything, mixed-up stories and discrepancies can always happen, but when there are this many discrepancies, and a picture that changes over time, it raises alarms to me.


28 posted on 12/19/2013 8:42:39 AM PST by butterdezillion (Free online faxing at http://faxzero.com/ Fax all your elected officials. Make DC listen.)
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To: butterdezillion

Why is the plane, sitting on the bottom shelf, falling into pieces within a week of the crash? Especially at the same time that they are retrieving stuff like watches and jewelry. If there was some kind of current or other phenomenon strong enough to pull an airplane apart, it would also move small stuff like watches and jewelry, to an extent they’d never be able to find that stuff. I just can’t picture what is being described actually happening naturally. The plane is close enough to where the crash happened that they were able to locate it by helicopter from above, and nothing powerful enough has moved the wreckage from that general area but something powerful enough has torn the plane into bits and pieces? It just doesn’t make sense.


29 posted on 12/19/2013 8:51:11 AM PST by butterdezillion (Free online faxing at http://faxzero.com/ Fax all your elected officials. Make DC listen.)
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To: logi_cal869

I can’t see video but I read the transcripts wherever they exist. What from the video report is necessary to understand the whole picture?


30 posted on 12/19/2013 8:54:54 AM PST by butterdezillion (Free online faxing at http://faxzero.com/ Fax all your elected officials. Make DC listen.)
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To: butterdezillion

“The stuff you’re describing doesn’t match what was experienced by any of the other passengers - least of all Kawasaki, who is himself a large man who may have health issues similar to Fuddy, but who also experienced blood loss that she didn’t, a bang to the head that she apparently didn’t, AND he didn’t have a life jacket.”

You are assuming that it is possible to compare the physical conditions of the other survivors to Fuddy, when it really isn’t possible to do so. A physician might or might not be able to conduct a physical of the two people for the sake of a successful comparison, but the physician could still be mistaken in the conclusion. Despite any outward appearances, there is simply no way we can know what Fuddy’s cardiac, renal, and circulatory conditions may have been. Complicating matters even more, we cannot know what trauma injuries Fuddy may have suffered upon impact which were not suffered by the other people aboard the aircraft. The fatal difference could be something as simple as the seatbelt cutting into Fuddy’s abdomen at an angle and impact force not experienced by the other people aboard the aircraft. This is just the sort of mortal injury my cousin suffered when she became the sole fatality in an automobile with six people. Likewise with the subsequently mortal injury suffered by General George S. Patton in his automobile collision. He was the only person among several who was seriously injured in the collision.

Kawasaki’s head gash could have been a serious head trauma, but it so far seems to have been a relatively minor injury. I once suffered a head gash like his, and it took three stitiches. You wouldn’t have known it with all of the blood that spurted from my head like someone had chopped it off or something. Head lacerations are like that. Sometimes they can bleed like an apparent gusher, yet actually produce only minor actual blood loss.

If Fuddy suffered an impact injury to her abdomen, there could be little immediate visual or sensory clue of any internal bleeding. Such unnoticed internal bleeding could very well have resulted in the kind of circulatory shock that cascades into a lethal collapse of Fuddy’s internal organs and glands. Even a mild exposure to lower blood pressure and/or mild hypothermia could be enough to ensue this cascade of failure.

“How exactly does a person “hold on tight” to their life jacket? The description in other accounts was that the survivors were floating on their backs. Fuddy had been dead for some time, unable to “hold on tight” to anything, and was floating just like the others when they found her - even to the extent that none of the others thought there was any problem with her.”

I wouldn’t characterize Fuddy as floating just like the others. I have no way of knowing what style of seat cushion – life vests this aircraft used for personal flotation devices. There are different types and designs used by air carriers. As a general rule, however, passenger aircraft overflying large bodies of water they cannot glide across in the event of engine failures are equired to provide suitable pesonal flotation devices for each passenger. Some designs combine the function of a personal flotation device or life vest with the passenger’s seat cushion. FAA regulatoins require these personal flotation devices to be “wearable” by the passenger. Some of them I have used were a seat cushion that unfolded to make a flat vest with straps. The straps were cinched tight to try and wrap around the passenger in a way that supported the passenger in a reclining position in the water. This was to help with breathing and reduce the risk of drowning.

Assuming Fuddy had donned this seat cushion/life vest in such a manner to rest on the back, the straps would have held the seat cushion/life vest against her body. When she became unconscious, however, she would no longer would have been struggling to keep from ingesting seawater as the waves of seawater broke over her head. This is why the survivors needed to hold on to the seat cushion/life vests for dear life. It is one thing to have a lifeless body being doused by the ocean waves and another altogether to have a living human being floating along as well but trying to keep the waves from drowning them in their personal flotation devices.

“The article citing Mark Peer that I was referencing was an earlier one - before they started trying to make it sound like it was sheer madness trying to survive. It seems like now we know Fuddy didn’t die in the crash but died of other causes afterwards, the reports are painting a totally different picture - stuff like the implication that they had to “hold on for dear life” to cushions, which would only be necessary if they didn’t have life jackets on. But the way the crash was noticed was because they had yellow life jackets on.”

The problem here is that you don’t understand the difference between wearing a personal flotaton device versus trying to keep your balance hanging from the personal flotation device in a way that keeps you from ingesting the seawater. A dead person in such a flotation device need not worry any longer about using the flotation to keep from drowning, but the living still have to make such an energy sapping struggle in the rough seas. Remember, you can still drown in the seas while wearing even the best boating life vests, much less the flimsier aviation seat cushion life vests.

“As time goes on, it seems like people are trying to change history. And that also raises red flags to me. Discrepancies that people have to work hard to unscramble always work to the benefit of those trying to hide something. As with everything, mixed-up stories and discrepancies can always happen, but when there are this many discrepancies, and a picture that changes over time, it raises alarms to me.”

Much of that is due to simply not understanding the evidence. Nonetheless, if Fuddy did die of natural causes after the ditching of the aircraft, it still does not preclude the possibility, lesser or greater, the aircraft engine had been sabotaged in an effort to eliminate Fuddy and Yamamoto at the same time.


31 posted on 12/19/2013 9:55:21 AM PST by WhiskeyX ( provides a system for registering complaints about unfair broadcasters and the ability to request a)
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To: WhiskeyX

It seems like you’re trying to say that the landing was very jarring because Kawasaki had such terrible injuries - which would show that Fuddy might also have had bad injuries. But then you’re trying to say Kawasaki didn’t die from his injuries like Fuddy did because his injuries really weren’t so bad.

Doesn’t make sense to me.


32 posted on 12/19/2013 10:21:01 AM PST by butterdezillion (Free online faxing at http://faxzero.com/ Fax all your elected officials. Make DC listen.)
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To: butterdezillion

Transcripts are fine; the posted link is not.

The pilot was responding to other calls that he was a ‘hero’; he was denying it. The link does nothing to elaborate.


33 posted on 12/19/2013 10:47:03 AM PST by logi_cal869
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To: WhiskeyX

Who called the news conference, and for what purpose?


34 posted on 12/19/2013 11:58:18 AM PST by butterdezillion (Free online faxing at http://faxzero.com/ Fax all your elected officials. Make DC listen.)
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To: WhiskeyX

as far as fuddys condition she well could have thought the plane was sabotaged to do her in and that she was about to meet her maker and answer for any crimes she may have committed...how is that for stress?


35 posted on 12/19/2013 3:36:34 PM PST by rolling_stone
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To: butterdezillion; Fred Nerks; WhiskeyX
Here' the latest I was able to find about the impending autopsy results in case you hadn't seen this article yet. This quote from the article struck me as possibly containing a bit of spin:
It's common for a cause of death not to be immediately known in these types of investigations, Hawaii-based National Transportation Safety Board investigator Jim Struhsaker said today.
I predict the autopsy results will be available sometime after the evidence is either buried or burned.
36 posted on 12/20/2013 8:33:59 PM PST by ecinkc (Keep a sharp eye, Mr Onaka, Dr Fukino, Ms Okubo. Who knows what the One you shelter will do next?)
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To: ecinkc

Neither Maui County nor the NTSB wants to take responsibility for the autopsy. According to NTSB protocols, they are mandated to arrange for an autopsy when a fatality is associated with a transportation accident or incident. If Maui County is doing the autopsy, they are the ones who are supposed to determine a cause of death. The NTSB is supposed to determine the cause of the crash/incident.

Maui County seems to be balking at their job. They’re supposed to figure out the cause of death and report it to the NTSB. Conversely, the NTSB guy shouldn’t be acting as if their investigation is to find out the cause of death. The cause of death is totally different than the cause of the accident. When the autopsy was completed there should have been a cause of death determined. There was a reason that Fuddy’s heart stopped beating and her brainwaves ceased.

If they don’t want to say what the cause of death was, my guess is that it’s NOT a straightforward case of a heart attack; there is more to the story. The more they balk, the more likely that the death is suspicious. There is no reason to withhold the autopsy results from the NTSB, unless they are afraid that the NTSB having it will make the autopsy a public record and viewable by the public. The autopsy IS a public record because it is mandated by government and not a voluntary, private autopsy at the request of family. Maui County is stalling, to keep the results out of the public eye. How appropriate, considering this is Loretta Fuddy. What better way to honor her than to obfuscate in her death just like she did in life.


37 posted on 12/20/2013 8:59:31 PM PST by butterdezillion (Free online faxing at http://faxzero.com/ Fax all your elected officials. Make DC listen.)
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To: butterdezillion

In this Dec. 11, 2013 photo provided by pilot Josh Lang, a single-engine plane is shown in waters off the island of Molokai following a crash shortly after takeoff toward Honolulu, Hawaii. One passenger died, eight other survived, including the pilot. The pilot of the plane that crashed off Molokai said Wednesday Dec. 18, 2013, he broadcast a mayday call once he realized he wouldn't be able to sustain a glide long enough to reach land after his engine lost power. Photo: Josh Lang, AP

Josh Lang, a helicopter pilot who was flying his private plane to Maui with his girlfriend, said it was "pure luck" they were in the area. "It looked like most people were waving and it looked like they were OK," Lang said. His girlfriend, Jaimee Thompson, said they felt obligated to stay until help arrived, to give the people in the water hope that they would be rescued.

« Back to Article Pilot describes decision to land plane in water

38 posted on 12/20/2013 9:49:09 PM PST by Fred Nerks (fair dinkum)
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To: butterdezillion

“How did Yamamoto know she was in distress? Why didn’t he tell anybody that she was in distress? He seems to be the only one who wasn’t surprised that she died...”

In my best “Gilligan” voice: “He did it! He did it!”


39 posted on 12/20/2013 9:57:23 PM PST by 21twelve (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2185147/posts 2013 is 1933 REBORN)
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To: Fred Nerks; skip2myloo

Thanks for that photo/link.

That plane looks about as fully-intact as I can imagine any plane being after a crash. Why was that plane busted into pieces 5 days later?


40 posted on 12/20/2013 10:06:17 PM PST by butterdezillion (Free online faxing at http://faxzero.com/ Fax all your elected officials. Make DC listen.)
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