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Who is Jesus Christ and Who is Irrational? (Mike Adams)
clashdaily.com ^ | 12-4-2013 | Mike Adams

Posted on 12/04/2013 3:17:41 PM PST by servo1969

A sixty-seven year old proud atheist friend of mine recently interjected the sweeping statement “all religion is irrational” into one of our conversations. I replied, not with a direct rebuttal but, instead, with the unexpected question, “who is Jesus Christ?” He replied, “I don’t know.” If I were to ask some of you why I pulled that question out of left field you might also reply with a bewildered “I don’t know.” So keep reading. Please.

If you have never really pondered the question “who is Jesus Christ?” then you simply cannot consider yourself to be a committed intellectual – at least not yet. Let me say that in a different way: if you have never given serious thought to the true identity of the most important individual ever to walk the face of the earth then you are either a) suffering from severe intellectual hernia, or b) possessed of an intellect impaired by a fear of knowing the true answer to the question.

Let me begin by defending the assertion that Jesus Christ was the most important individual ever to walk the face of the earth. 1) We divide time using the date of Jesus’ birth. 2) More books have been written about Jesus than anyone else in recorded history. Case closed. Now we can move on to the issue of fear and intellectual curiosity.

The options we are given for understanding the identity of Jesus are so limited that no one who is truly intelligent can be behaving rationally if he just avoids the question altogether. Take, for example, my friend who has lived 2/3 of a century on this planet without so much as attempting to work through the options. I don’t want you to be one of those irrational people so let’s get to work.

When addressing the question of Jesus’ identity, there are only four available options. Anyone who has ever read C.S. Lewis or Josh McDowell knows that Jesus was either: 1) A legend, 2) a lunatic, 3) a liar, or 4) the Lord.

The idea that Jesus was merely a legend, as opposed to someone who actually lived, is simply not an option we can take seriously (at least not for long). Independent historical accounts, by that I mean accounts written by non-Christians, are enough to put this option to rest. Jesus is cited by 42 sources within 150 years of his life, and nine of those sources are non-Christian. By contrast, the Roman Emperor Tiberius is only mentioned by 10 sources. If you believe Tiberius existed, how can you not believe in a man who is cited by four times as many people and has had an immeasurably greater impact on history? You can believe that if you wish. But then you risk forfeiting any claim to be considered rational.

Nor is it rational to consider Jesus to have been a lunatic. Perhaps you could maintain that belief if you’ve never read the Bible. But how can a person claim to be educated if he’s never read the Bible?

World Magazine editor Marvin Olasky once entertained the notion that Jesus was a mere lunatic. But, then, in the early 1970s, as an atheist and a communist graduate student, he examined the words of Jesus for the first time. He was traveling to Russia on a ship and wanted to brush up on his Russian. But all he had with him to read (that just happened to be written in Russian) was a copy of the New Testament. And so he read. And he was transformed.

Marvin recognized immediately that the words of Jesus represent a profound level of moral understanding that rises above anything else that has ever been written. Read for yourself the words of Jesus. Then read the words of Charles Manson. Try to convince me that they are one in the same – merely two lunatics who mistakenly thought they were the Messiah. You have a right to that opinion. But you don’t have a right to be considered rational if you cannot detect a glaring difference between the teachings of Christ and Manson.

So, now only two options remain. And this is where the real trouble begins. If we call Jesus a liar (who falsely claimed to be God) then we cannot also call him a great moral teacher. One cannot be both. But many look at the final option of calling him Lord and panic. To go there means to accept belief in the supernatural. And surely that couldn’t be rational. Or could it?

Science has taught us a lot since the Bible was written. For one thing, we know that the universe had a beginning. It is expanding, it is finite, and it was not always here. Put simply, Carl Sagan was wrong. In fact, he was dead wrong. The cosmos is not all that is or was or that ever will be. It had a beginning. It is irrational to dismiss the obvious implications of this: that the universe was caused by a supernatural force existing outside of space and time.

People have to let go of the idea that the natural world is all there is because that is not where the science leads us. It instead leads us away from the philosophical commitment to only considering naturalistic explanations for the things we observe in the physical universe. This also leads us to one very important question: if a supernatural force was great enough to create the universe could the force or being not also reenter creation? And another related question: is the force or being responsible for creating life not also able to conquer death?

Arguably, the resurrection is a pretty small accomplishment in comparison with the creation of the universe. But that doesn’t mean it happened. The evidence must be judged on its own merits. I recommend that serious intellectuals start here.

Of course, you could just keep avoiding the question while judging others to be irrational. But there’s no avoiding the plank in your own eye.


TOPICS: Books/Literature; Chit/Chat; History; Miscellaneous; Religion; Science
KEYWORDS: apologetics; biblearchaeology; christ; historicity; historicityofjesus; jesus; mikeadams
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To: Lucas McCain
Would you question the “authenticity” of a document whose major premise was: the cow jumped over the moon?

I would if hundreds and thousands of witnesses saw the cow jump over the moon. God in the OT did many things for many to witness. Jesus Christ did all of His miracles in front of hundreds and sometimes thousands. After His resurrection, Paul tells us this:

1 Corinthians 15:

3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep; 7 then He appeared to James, then to all the apostles; 8 and last of all, as to one untimely born, He appeared to me also. 9 For I am the least of the apostles, and not fit to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me. 11 Whether then it was I or they, so we preach and so you believed.

381 posted on 12/06/2013 1:05:40 PM PST by redleghunter
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To: Lucas McCain
A loving parent would not punish her child endlessly

You've created a strawman god.

One that you REFUSE to believe in.


382 posted on 12/06/2013 1:23:50 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Lucas McCain
A loving parent would not punish her child endlessly

You've created a strawman god.

One that you REFUSE to believe in.


383 posted on 12/06/2013 1:31:33 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Lucas McCain; redleghunter
The story of the ancient world is recorded by several historians of old, such as Homer, Josephus, Tacitus, Xenophon, Herodotus—called “the father of history,” and Thucydides, who is credited as being one of the most trustworthy of ancient sources. All of them suffer in comparison to the historical pinpoint accuracy of Luke.
Luke was undeniably brilliant, possessing remarkable literary abilities and a deep knowledge of the Greek language. He was the only non-Jewish author of the Bible. Yet he wrote more of the New Testament than anyone else—28 percent. He was a physician and a scientist. He was a writer and a medical missionary. He has proved himself a historian of first rank. Here he tells us that before writing his Gospel, he did the work of an investigative journalist, recording his findings in an orderly manner based on careful investigation: “It seemed good also to me to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, so that you may know the certainty of the things you have been taught”
With that in mind, remember that Luke painstakingly and confidently described the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ in his Gospel, chapters 23 and 24; and he repeatedly made reference to the Resurrection in the book of Acts.
The brilliant Wilbur Smith said:
"Of all the writers in the New Testament, Luke was the one who knew better than any of them, from his own medical experience, that it was utterly impossible for a dead body to come to life again by its own power. He was also a man who would have no faith in such a great doctrine as the resurrection of Christ, were it based upon a vision, a hallucination, mental excitement, or the blowing of the wind, or the rattling of a window. It was the conviction of this scientist and scholar, true Grecian and true Christian, that the Lord manifested himself to his disciples in many proofs."
To reject the Resurrection, you have to disregard the demonstrated reliability of one of the foremost historians of the first century, a man who has been proven accurate even in the minutia of his narrative.
How accurate was Luke's historical record? He tied everything into history and gave us historical anchors all along the way, both in his Gospel and Acts. His historical pegs have proven accurate even in minute points. For example, notice the way he began chapter 2: those days Caesar Augustus issued a decree that a census should be taken of the entire Roman world. (This was the first census that took place while Quirinius was governor of Syria.) And everyone went to his own town to register” (Luke 2:1–3).
Luke did not just say that Joseph and Mary traveled to Bethlehem. He said they traveled there because of a census instituted by Caesar Augustus and that this particular census occurred while a man named Quirinius was governor of Syria. A hundred years ago, critics had a field day with that statement, finding no evidence in history to suggest that Caesar ever issued such a decree. Furthermore (critics charged) there was nothing to suggest that Quirinius was ever governor of Syria at the time prescribed by Luke.
Then a series of discoveries were made. Sir William Ramsay, the Scottish archaeologist, dug up first-century documents showing that the Roman Empire conducted a regular taxpaying census every fourteen years and that this system originated in the days of Caesar Augustus. Another document was found in Egypt, an edict of G. Vibius Maximus written on papyrus, describing the procedure used in such a census, directing taxpayers to return to their ancestral towns to register. Another inscription discovered by Ramsay in Antioch showed that with brief interruptions, a man named Quirinius functioned as military governor in Syria from 12 b.c. to a.d. 16.
Notice in the next chapter, Luke 3, how meticulously Luke nails down his historical references: “In the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar—when Pontius Pilate was governor of Judea, Herod tetrarch of Galilee, his brother Philip tetrarch of Iturea and Traconitis, and Lysanias tetrarch of Abilene—during the high priesthood of Annas and Caiaphas, the word of God came to John son of Zechariah in the desert” (Luke 3:1–2)
Sound like misty legend and fabricated fable? Anything but! Luke tacks John’s ministry to the wall of history using six different pins. John the Baptist appeared when (1) Tiberius Caesar was in his fifteenth year of rule; (2) Pontius Pilate was governor of Judea; (3) Herod was tetrarch of Galilee; (4) Herod’s brother Philip was tetrarch of Iturea and Traconitis; (5) Lysanias was tetrarch of Abilene; and (6) Annas and Caiaphas were sharing the office of high priest. Most of these facts are easy to verify, but a couple of them caused problems. A hundred years ago, critics were attacking Luke’s reference to Lysanias, saying, “The only Lysanias mentioned in history was killed in 36 b.c., sixty years before John the Baptist.” But the critics were stilled when archaeologists excavated an inscription near Damascus, stating that a man named Lysanias was indeed tetrarch of Abilene at the time mentioned by Luke.
The skeptics also made hay with Pontius Pilate. For most of modern history his name has been absent on every historical document we have from the ancient world. Critics charged that Pilate was a fabrication. But a stone I have personally seen and took a picture of was excavated in Caesarea. It has the name Pontius Pilate plainly engraved for all the world to see. He was governor of Judea during the very time given by Luke, and he was headquartered at Caesarea.
I mentioned earlier how William Ramsay traveled to the Middle East to disprove Luke’s historical references and how, to his great surprise, he found the writings of Luke accurate in their tiniest details. This is even more remarkable when we consider that every other historian in the ancient world—men like Polybius, Quintilian, Xenophon, Josephus, and even Thucydides—did not hesitate to misrecord the facts to suit their own purposes.
384 posted on 12/06/2013 1:32:04 PM PST by GarySpFc (We are saved by the precious blood of the God-man.)
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To: Lucas McCain
A loving parent would not punish her child endlessly

I think what you are getting at here is that YOU have not done anything to deserve such punishment.

I'm sure that most kids who are stood in the corner feel the same way.

Then perhaps Catholicism is for you.

They will let you out of purgatory after a while.

385 posted on 12/06/2013 1:36:34 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Lucas McCain; OneVike; Luircin; redleghunter
No, my idea is that eternal justice precludes the notion that poor little ol’ me (and billions of others kinda like me) deserves never ending excruciating pain.

Or for those who use that as an excuse to reject the Lord Jesus who died and rose to save you from whatever degree of pain you deserve. I honestly doubt if such would believe even if the SDA misinterpretation was correct.

386 posted on 12/06/2013 2:23:41 PM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: Luircin

I’ve dealt with these fine folks until I’m blue in the face. Of course I never had any hope of convincing anyone. That’s just the nature of it.

I used to be in their shoes. For 30 years I was a devout and committed Christian. I served as a pastor for many of those years. And I am familiar with the thinking. Any concession towards agreement with anything I have said (such as that forever dangling a screaming humanity over the fires of hell is not nice)would be met with pangs of conscience.


387 posted on 12/06/2013 2:46:57 PM PST by Lucas McCain
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To: Lucas McCain
I used to be in their shoes. For 30 years I was a devout and committed Christian. I served as a pastor for many of those years.

I call bull hockey on that statement.

388 posted on 12/06/2013 3:45:54 PM PST by Luircin
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To: GarySpFc

Well done! Thank you for that information.


389 posted on 12/06/2013 4:04:29 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: OneVike

In fact if the information gleaned from a copy of Buddhist Scriptures, belonging to the leading Buddhist teacher of ChiangMai Province in Thailand, is correct then it would seem that Buddha may have even believed that a Holy One would be born one day that would be the savior of mankind.(image from book below)
***Perhaps, like for the old testament prophets & jews, it will be accounted to him as righteousness that he believed. He would have been a christian...


390 posted on 12/06/2013 5:48:40 PM PST by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: donmeaker

At least as recounted by the gospels.
***You don’t know your history. Indifferent sources confirm it. Opposing sources confirm it. There’s never a stronger fact in history than when an enemy acknowledges the fact.

Indigenous tribes in America acknowledge that Columbus sailed across the ocean. It would be foolish to hold the pretense that they don’t acknowledge it. They just don’t like it.

Gallic tribes acknowledge that Julius Caesar defeated them in battle. They didn’t like it, but they acknowledge it. It would be foolish to hold the pretense that they don’t acknowledge it.

Your anti-christian attitude makes you blind to simple history.


391 posted on 12/06/2013 5:54:07 PM PST by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: donmeaker

I would suggest that putting someone to death for what they say is a fairly strong way of expressing disagreement with what that one said.
***Then when both sides of the courtroom say, “yes, Jesus claimed divinity in front of the highest court of the land”, then REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THEY AGREE WITH WHAT HE SAID, it is a FACT that he said it.

You’ve got serious idealogical blinders on.


392 posted on 12/06/2013 5:56:23 PM PST by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: Lucas McCain

After all of those years and you have never done a study of the Hebrew and Greek words that have been translated “hell” to see what the misunderstanding might be? If in fact you were actually pastor how sad it is that you lack that understanding. Had you done that, and understood, you would be making none of the statements you have made here.


393 posted on 12/06/2013 6:40:30 PM PST by CynicalBear (For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ)
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To: Luircin

“I call bull hockey on that statement.”

Why? Do you just like making assertions about people you don’t know? You don’t believe people can make a significant change? That I am a former Christian pastor is no more incredible than that you are a former homosexual. Is it?


394 posted on 12/06/2013 6:59:59 PM PST by Lucas McCain
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To: Lucas McCain
Of course I never had any hope of convincing anyone.

Oh ye of little faith.

395 posted on 12/06/2013 7:49:47 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Lucas McCain
For 30 years I was a devout and committed Christian.

Dang!

It took you 30 years to figger out that HELL thing???

(I don't think I would have admitted that!)

396 posted on 12/06/2013 7:51:07 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Lucas McCain
I’ve dealt with these fine folks until I’m blue in the face.


397 posted on 12/06/2013 7:52:53 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Lucas McCain
That I am a former Christian pastor is no more incredible ...

True.

History is replete with those who did NOT endure to the end.

398 posted on 12/06/2013 7:54:58 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: OneVike

Well, Moses got some law all right; but them folks who drowned when the rains came surely were doing SOMETHING wrong!


399 posted on 12/06/2013 8:39:34 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Lucas McCain
My point is this: the punishment should fit the crime.

You are judging the punishment; using MAN's ideas and concepts.

What gives you the right to do that?

400 posted on 12/06/2013 8:40:57 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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