Cold fusion reactor independently verified, has 10,000 times the energy density of gas

Intrade Gateway via Extreme Tech ^ | May 21, 2013 at 12:43 pm | Sebastian Anthony

[Kevmo]

http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/1563 ... ity-of-gas

Cold fusion reactor independently verified, has 10,000 times the energy density of gas By Sebastian Anthony on May 21, 2013 at 12:43 pm 338 Comments

Share This article

110 inShare.

Against all probability, a device that purports to use cold fusion to generate vast amounts of power has been verified by a panel of independent scientists. The research paper, which hasn’t yet undergone peer review, seems to confirm both the existence of cold fusion, and its potency: The cold fusion device being tested has roughly 10,000 times the energy density and 1,000 times the power density of gasoline. Even allowing for a massively conservative margin of error, the scientists say that the cold fusion device they tested is 10 times more powerful than gasoline — which is currently the best fuel readily available to mankind.

The device being tested, which is called the Energy Catalyzer (E-Cat for short), was created by Andrea Rossi. Rossi has been claiming for the past two years that he had finally cracked cold fusion, but much to the chagrin of the scientific community he hasn’t allowed anyone to independently analyze the device — until now. While it sounds like the scientists had a fairly free rein while testing the E-Cat, we should stress that they still don’t know exactly what’s going on inside the sealed steel cylinder reactor. Still, the seven scientists, all from good European universities, obviously felt confident enough with their findings to publish the research paper.

As for what’s happening inside the cold fusion reactor, Andrea Rossi and his colleague Sergio Focardi have previously said their device works by infusing hydrogen into nickel, transmuting the nickel into copper and releasing a large amount of heat. While Rossi hasn’t provided much in the way of details — he’s a very secretive man, it seems — we can infer some knowledge from NASA’s own research into cold fusion. Basically, hydrogen ions (single protons) are sucked into a nickel lattice (pictured right); the nickel’s electrons are forced into the hydrogen to produce neutrons; the nickel nuclei absorb these neutrons; the neutrons are stripped of their electrons to become protons; and thus the nickel goes up in atomic number from 28 to 29, becoming copper.

This process, like the “conventional” fusion of hydrogen atoms into helium, produces a lot of heat. (See: 500MW from half a gram of hydrogen: The hunt for fusion power heats up.) The main difference, though, is that the cold fusion process (also known as LENR, or low energy nuclear reaction) produces very slow moving neutrons which don’t create ionizing radiation or radioactive waste. Real fusion, on the other hand, produces fast neutrons that decimate everything in their path. In short, LENR is fairly safe — safe enough that NASA dreams of one day putting a cold fusion reactor in every home, car, and plane. Nickel and hydrogen, incidentally, are much cheaper and cleaner fuels than gasoline.

As far as we can tell, the main barrier to cold fusion — as with normal fusion — is producing more energy than you put in. In NASA’s tests, it takes a lot more energy to fuse the nickel and hydrogen than is produced by the reaction. Rossi, it would seem, has discovered a secret sauce that significantly reduces the amount of energy required to start the reaction. As for what the secret sauce is, no one knows — in the research paper, the independent scientists simply refer to it as “unknown additives.” All told, the E-Cat seems to have a power density of 4.4×105 W/kg, and an energy density of 5.1×107 Wh/kg.

If Rossi and Focardi’s cold fusion technology turns out to be real — if the E-Cat really has 10,000 times the energy density and 1,000 times the power density of gasoline — then the world will change, very, very quickly. Stay tuned; we’ll let you know when — or if — the E-Cat passes peer review.

Now read: Nuclear power is our only hope, or, the greatest environmentalist hypocrisy of all time

Research paper: arXiv:1305.3913 - “Indication of anomalous heat energy production in a reactor device”

[Moonman62]

100% hogwash. You measure power at the input, and power at the output. Power In , Power Out. You do not have to know the internal contents any more than you need to know the internal contents of a simple resistor. You just measure it.

Your gang of seven doesn't know how to write a proper research paper, much less take research quality measurements.

A technical or sociological detail that doesn't prove that the preprint is rubbish but it's always a brightly shining and blinking "red light" for me is that the physics.gen-ph preprint was delivered as PDF only and it wasn't written in TEX but rather in Microsoft Word (on a Mac). That makes it very likely that the authors don't actually know TEX and most of such authors don't really know physics well, either.

The authors are clearly ignorant not just about TEX; they seem to be unfamiliar with the basics of the scientific notation and the rudimentary methodologies that are needed in experiments. For example, the units of dimensionful quantities are always written as [W] including the square brackets. No, if we perform dimensional analysis and want to say something about the units of a quantity, we may use the symbol [l] or [length] to describe the units of length. But we never actually write meters – the particular units themselves – into the square brackets! This is a detail but a strong indication that the authors haven't really gone through some relevant undergraduate freshman courses of physics.

Perhaps more importantly, the paper never discusses the error margins properly. You may easily check that they never talk about anything such a "systematic error" and when they talk about errors at all, they're just "optional". Sometimes they add them to the results, sometimes they don't, and if they do add them, it seems that they just make the numbers up. For example, on pages 22-23, they say that the effective power consumption has error of 10% because "errors of this extent are commonly accepted in calorimetric measurements". Wow. There's surely no "one-size-fits-all" error for calorimetric measurements. The error depends on what you measure, how you measure it, and almost all the details in your experiment. The magnitude of a systematic error of your apparatus actually has to be measured and calculated for your case specifically; you can't copy a "general figure" from completely different papers describing different apparatuses. This sentence by itself shows that they don't know how to do experiments well.

Source

[Cold Heat]

Just think for a few minutes about what you said regarding accurate measurements...

It would be different if you were measuring the velocity of a object that you understand and are fully briefed that the object has no internal motive ability and cannot propel it’s self in any way. Nobody then could question that the object measurement was faked...

But you are asking me to take a huge leap of faith just as a magician would when they do the levitation act. They allow someone from the audience, sometimes a plant and sometimes real (you don’t know and can’t know)who will take a rod and waive it under and over the top of the object to be levitated and proclaim that there are no strings! No supports...Yippee! We have levitation!

We accept that and pay our 30-40 bucks knowing full well it was a trick, a fakery of diversion. We know the magician has spoofed us but we don’t care. We saw the measurements...we looked with our own eyes and saw nothing supporting that object. But we also know it was faked and that nobody can levitate something of that mass with their mind.

So here you have a inventor who has withheld certain knowledge as proprietary secrets, has had others who we don’t really know well to waive the magicians rod under and over the black box and proclaim the results are good! So now we are supposed to accept this????

I understand that this is not a magicians show, and we are not paying 30-40 bucks for a couple hours of entertainment. In fact this is the core of the problem because that is exactly what it looks like and until more of this proprietary information is made known, all you can do is treat it like the magicians trick. Be intrigued and entertained by it but realize there is too much about it that is not known and no explanation will suffice to counter the fact that nobody but this inventor can really know and understand what is actually happening in that box.

It’s quite clear that we cannot with the information provided.

[Kevmo]

It’s time to take the mod’s advice and ignore you.

Thanks 4 Bumping The Thread T4BTT.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2965392/posts?page=19#19

[Kevmo]

So now we are supposed to accept this????
***You yourself said that you accept these simple measurements.

Do you accept these simple measurements?
Sure....The measurements are not a issue with me.

This isn’t a magician’s trick because the magician needs to operate in a controlled environment or his trick won’t work. The magician can’t do the trick if he ain’t there — Rossi wasn’t even there for the bulk of these tests. The magician can’t do the trick if he can’t jig the testing parameters like handing the audience member a trick ring — These scientists brought their own measuring equipment. That’s like someone coming up onto the stage with their own measuring ring, knowing what subterfuge to look for. And then finally, the reason why this result is so astonishing to you is that you haven’t been following the recent developments in LENR. For instance, the F-P Anomalous Heat Effect has been replicated more than 14,700 times, and that was before Rossi ever came onto the scene. Once you start to look at the data in that context, the result isn’t so shocking.

So, you had said that you accept these measurements. These 7 scientists are simply measuring fakery, according to you. Then what about the 14,700 other times the same kind of measurements generated very similar results? Were all those faked? Is it a giant conspiracy?

[Cold Heat]

The magician can’t do the trick if he ain’t there — Rossi wasn’t even there for the bulk of these tests. The magician can’t do the trick if he can’t jig the testing parameters like handing the audience member a trick ring

You keep repeating this about his absence..It is irrelevant to the test. Whatever he did, it's in the design and the special sauce. The trick, if there is one, (I have to use the word "if") is already part of the device. There is no need for him to do anything more, just let the audience poke and prod it with standard measurements.

You seem to have utter faith in the secret sauce, the electronic wave modifications used in the power source and the explanation of how the extra heat is created. I don't and can't....I need more information to do that and you should as well....just sayin....

I am not questioning the measurements which clearly reveal additional heat being created for the a large portion of the test length, minus warm-up and cool down. It was a substantial length of time for such a small device and I acknowledge this....That is not the issue.

The issue is, has been and will be just how that heat was created. As to how much heat, just using a rule of thumb based on the dummy test vs the live test the device created in excess of 500 degrees centigrade while running, This figure has the 300C produced by the heating coils subtracted from the total so 500C is the over and above figure and that's a conservative estimate, so heat was produced. Not arguing that...

Are there other ways to create that heat? Absolutely! Some sort of exothermic reaction.

Are there ways to fudge the test measurements?? Sure! In the dummy test they did not utilize the wave form modification or the timer...on/off system....I don't know why they did not...It's a question.

But all said and done, we don't know enough and I cannot be convinced by what is there..Futher tests will have to be done. Tests with a heat exchange system to actually measure the heat based on temperature increases in a specific amount of water and not just a IR camera estimating radiant heat.

But more than that we need to know more about the secret sauce and the wave form modification. As a electrician I already know why they used three phase power. They did not need it for resistive loads but they used it to reduce the amount of input power consumed to make the test figures better. Again I suspect I also know why they modified the wave forms going to the resistive coils. It vastly improves the efficiency of the wave form, achieving more heat with fewer watts per hour used.

Would I have done that? probably, but I would have been more open about it. he said the wave form modulations were more secret sauce.

So all this taken together I see a fascinating experiment but I don't know if it's real. I hope it is because it would mean a potential replacement initially of our current nuclear plants that produce byproducts that our society is not prepared even now to deal with. Offshoots of this tech could change a lot of things, and that is all great stuff, but I still can't say this is real. He's got to open up to peer review and that means he's got to get off the secret sauce thing and reveal more....

[count-your-change]

The people who should be looking for holes in this demo are the Seven themselves, instead of accepting what they told by someone with an interest in the demos result.

[Kevmo]

You keep repeating this about his absence..It is irrelevant to the test. Whatever he did, it’s in the design and the special sauce. The trick, if there is one, (I have to use the word “if”) is already part of the device. There is no need for him to do anything more, just let the audience poke and prod it with standard measurements.
***Interesting supposition. Of course, you know what such a thing means, don’t you? It makes Rossi the greatest magician in history. No other can perform magic tricks in such a way. Even making the statue of Liberty disappear was a controlled environment. You really have a high opinion of Rossi. It’s astonishing.

You seem to have utter faith in the secret sauce,
***Not at all. I have faith in 7 scientists to be able to read multimeters and thermometers. You have the same level of faith because you accept their readings. Your faith tells you it must be a fake, somehow. There’s that word: somehow. That’s when you know you’re dealing with fake. But your level of faith requires you to believe Rossi is the greatest magician in history. Mine only requires him to have been Edisonian in his approach, and probably just lucky.

the electronic wave modifications used in the power source and the explanation of how the extra heat is created. I don’t and can’t....I need more information to do that and you should as well....just sayin....
***Nope. I don’t have the kind of faith you describe. I think Rossi is a crappy scientist and a terrible demonstrator. Your faith requires him to be the most awesome demonstrator ever.

I am not questioning the measurements which clearly reveal additional heat being created for the a large portion of the test length,
***Be prepared to get flamed by a bunch of overly aggressive skeptics.

minus warm-up and cool down. It was a substantial length of time for such a small device and I acknowledge this....That is not the issue.
***Wear an asbestos suit. That helps.

The issue is, has been and will be just how that heat was created.
***If you’re willing to accept those measurements, are you willing to accept the fact that the P-F Anomalous Heat Effect has been replicated more than 14,700 times? If so, the source of that heat has been investigated for a long time. There are dozens of theories, but no particular one stands out. So, do you accept the replications?

As to how much heat, just using a rule of thumb based on the dummy test vs the live test the device created in excess of 500 degrees centigrade while running, This figure has the 300C produced by the heating coils subtracted from the total so 500C is the over and above figure and that’s a conservative estimate, so heat was produced. Not arguing that...
***You’ll get flamed by the anti-LENR crowd for saying that. I hope you have fire insurance.

Are there other ways to create that heat? Absolutely! Some sort of exothermic reaction.
***Did you not read the headline or the paper? They did the calculations for the volume presented over the time of the test, and independently verified, has 10,000 times the energy density of gas. It has an order of magnitude higher energy density than any known exothermic chemical source.

Are there ways to fudge the test measurements?? Sure! In the dummy test they did not utilize the wave form modification or the timer...on/off system....I don’t know why they did not...It’s a question.
***Wow, what a fascinating supposition, that such things could be the cause of 10,000X energy density.

But all said and done, we don’t know enough and I cannot be convinced by what is there..Futher tests will have to be done. Tests with a heat exchange system to actually measure the heat based on temperature increases in a specific amount of water and not just a IR camera estimating radiant heat.
***That is hilarious. Rossi’s earlier tests were with water and he was lambasted for using that approach. There’s never going to be pleasing people who have already set their jaw.

But more than that we need to know more about the secret sauce and the wave form modification.
***It is an industrial trade secret. I tell you what, why don’t you go and get some trade secrets from your boss and send them to me, see how that goes over with him.

As a electrician I already know why they used three phase power.
***Because that is what comes out of the wall.

They did not need it for resistive loads but they used it to reduce the amount of input power consumed to make the test figures better.
***Baloney.
The inanity of the hidden input power hypothesis
http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex- href=”mailto:l@eskimo.com”>l@eskimo.com/msg80959.html

Again I suspect I also know why they modified the wave forms going to the resistive coils. It vastly improves the efficiency of the wave form, achieving more heat with fewer watts per hour used.
***They didn’t modify the wave forms. Rossi did. It’s part of his black box.

Would I have done that? probably, but I would have been more open about it. he said the wave form modulations were more secret sauce.
***What’s sauce is sauce. You measure what you’re allowed to measure, report the results. Look for evidence of trickery. You yourself acknowledge those measurements.

So all this taken together I see a fascinating experiment but I don’t know if it’s real.
***Just read up on those 14,700 replications and you’ll soon get the idea.

He’s got to open up to peer review
***His papers were rejected. It happens to a lot of LENR guys, probably to the vast majority of them.

and that means he’s got to get off the secret sauce thing and reveal more....
***He’s sitting on a $100Billion secret. It’s not like the USPTO will give him a patent. If you were in those shoes, would you open your kimono so everyone can steal it? I sure as hell wouldn’t.

[Kevmo]

There’s that word: somehow. That’s when you know you’re dealing with fake.

should be

There’s that word: somehow. That’s when you know you’re dealing with faith.

[Kevmo]

You did not address this

So, you had said that you accept these measurements. These 7 scientists are simply measuring fakery, according to you. Then what about the 14,700 other times the same kind of measurements generated very similar results? Were all those faked? Is it a giant conspiracy?

[Cold Heat]

OK.....

-So, what was the catalyst?

-What are the chemical properties of the catalyst?

-Why are they screwing with the waveforms of the 3phase and single phase input power? Is the efficiency gained even relevant or is their something else being done with the electrical power in addition to the simple resistive heating coils.

Seems I read somewhere that they might be using Nickle hydride as the primary fuel converting the nickel to copper and thus releasing energy....

Your pictures show a unidentified metal hydride being used....what metal? What form of Nickel are they using, if you know....?Or they know it should be published without secret sauces...

Lets see just once that all these fakery questions I and others have are put to bed. It’s real easy to do, just show me what you are using to create this purported low temp fusion and show us all the chenmicals used, what they do and that this device in no way is only producing a exothermic reaction or slow controlled burn of a metal/chemical cocktail that produces it’s own oxidants...spurred on by electric heaters...

Most of that stuff has a melting point within the heating elements measured abilities, around 230 C or 440 F but they also have flash points. Nickel hydroxide for example looks like this......

Chemical Formula: HO.Ni
H2NiO2

Flash Point: Ignites in air at about 752.0° F (USCG, 1999)

Lower Explosive Limit (LEL): data unavailable

Upper Explosive Limit (UEL): data unavailable

Autoignition Temperature: 752 ° F (USCG, 1999)

Melting Point: 446 ° F (USCG, 1999)

Vapor Pressure: data unavailable

Vapor Density (Relative to Air): data unavailable

Specific Gravity: 4.1 at 68.0 ° F (USCG, 1999)

Boiling Point: data unavailable

Molecular Weight: 92.72 (USCG, 1999)

Water Solubility: data unavailable

IDLH: 10 mg/m3 (as Ni); A potential human carcinogen. (NIOSH, 2003)

So what the heck are THEY using? What is in the secret sauce? Is it just doing a slow burn, modified by the secret catalyst and kept going by the secret wave form modification or is it real alchemy....real transmutation with energy release as claimed....

If it is.......let’s see the explanation of the HOW!

Let’s see the composition of the catalyst or catalysts used.

Let’s see a spectro analysis of the by products.

Until they do this....they have what any person could logically call a trick, a fake, a fraud, a misdirection play designed to generate cash, and not science or technology.

If they have a legitimate cold fusion device, then getting a peer review by some group some where should not be too hard to do with the proper submissions and scientific testing. I’m not seeing any indication of that so I don’t think that they are going to do it. What they are going to do is design a electrical powered boiler that uses the same electricity as microwave and runs on Secret Sauce that they will sell and do the re-fueling and they will never tell anyone how it works, just that it does.

Just like all those Boiler heat reclamation devices that millions of dollars were totally wasted on, some 30 years or so ago.

That’s just a shot in the dark guess but it’s on the right track because if they don’t care to share this so called wonderful invention with the scientific community, then they are planning to monetize this gizmo by selling the right to distribute it under a protected patent (application) and they will guard the information on how it works until they have gotten every dollar and euro they can possibly screw people out of before the patent is rejected.

They will do this if the tech is fake. If not, they will find a university to partner with and get it peer reviewed. Then I will believe it. (most likely) But that’s not what’s happening and until it does....I’m a total skeptic and none of your straw man based, circular arguments can ever change my mind or anyone for that matter. You have apparently said the same lines so many times that you could simply cut and paste them from MS Notepad.

Have a good day....I gotta get some shuteye...

[Kevmo]

OK..... -So, what was the catalyst?
***Nobody knows. You’re kinda windy. Do you really expect responses to that lengthy response? You didn’t respond to the question about 14,700 replications, so why should I respond to this Word Salad?

[Kevmo]

-What are the chemical properties of the catalyst?
***No one knows. It is an industrial secret.

[Kevmo]

-Why are they screwing with the waveforms of the 3phase and single phase input power?
***They aren’t.

The inanity of the hidden input power hypothesis
http://www.mail-archive.com/vortex- href=”mailto:l@eskimo.com”>l@eskimo.com/msg81067.html

Is the efficiency gained even relevant or is [there ]something else being done with the electrical power in addition to the simple resistive heating coils.
***I gather this is a question. It is already addressed in the thread above.

[Kevmo]

Seems I read somewhere that they might be using Nickle hydride as the primary fuel converting the nickel to copper and thus releasing energy....
***And maybe it was White Phosphorous, as claimed upthread. You do your calculations based upon MAXIMUM chemical energy available, and lo and behold, it turns our that it is independently verified, has 10,000 times the energy density of gas.

[Kevmo]

Your pictures show a unidentified metal hydride being used....what metal?
***Nobody knows, and it is immaterial to the investigation that what has been demonstrated was independently verified, has 10,000 times the energy density of gas,and you accepted those measurements.

So, quit avoiding the 14,700 replications question and answer it.

[Kevmo]

Lets see just once that all these fakery questions I and others have are put to bed. It’s real easy to do, just show me what you are using to create this purported low temp fusion and show us all the chenmicals used,
***Baloney. Just assume it is the highest energy density chemical available. The results are 10,000X that of gasoline. You have acknowledged that measurement.

what they do and that this device in no way is only producing a exothermic reaction or slow controlled burn of a metal/chemical cocktail that produces it’s own oxidants...spurred on by electric heaters...
***In other words, a chemical reaction. The paper denotes that the calculation was performed and the measurements (which you accept) show an energy density 10X that of ANY chemical energy density.

[Kevmo]

You did not address this

So, you had said that you accept these measurements. These 7 scientists are simply measuring fakery, according to you. Then what about the 14,700 other times the same kind of measurements generated very similar results? Were all those faked? Is it a giant conspiracy?

[Kevmo]

Most of that stuff has a melting point within the heating elements measured abilities, around 230 C or 440 F but they also have flash points. Nickel hydroxide for example looks like this......
***And your point is??? In the meantime, all of us know that you’re avoiding the 14,700 replications question.

[Kevmo]

Chemical Formula: HO.Ni
H2NiO2

Flash Point: Ignites in air at about 752.0° F (USCG, 1999)

Lower Explosive Limit (LEL): data unavailable

Upper Explosive Limit (UEL): data unavailable

Autoignition Temperature: 752 ° F (USCG, 1999)

Melting Point: 446 ° F (USCG, 1999)

Vapor Pressure: data unavailable

Vapor Density (Relative to Air): data unavailable

Specific Gravity: 4.1 at 68.0 ° F (USCG, 1999)

Boiling Point: data unavailable

Molecular Weight: 92.72 (USCG, 1999)

Water Solubility: data unavailable

IDLH: 10 mg/m3 (as Ni); A potential human carcinogen. (NIOSH, 2003)
***Here, allow me to help you. I posted this thread long ago, but none of those hyper-aggressive skeptics bothered to back up their assertions on this thread.

How to Prove that the Rossi/Focardi eCAT LENR is Real (or Fake)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2730401/posts

[Kevmo]

It is noticeable that you keep avoiding those 14,700 replications.

So, you had said that you accept these measurements. These 7 scientists are simply measuring fakery, according to you. Then what about the 14,700 other times the same kind of measurements generated very similar results? Were all those faked? Is it a giant conspiracy?