Posted on 05/02/2013 4:52:40 PM PDT by JoeA
I was in the post office today attending to some business and saw a notice posted on the wall in the passport office. Here's what it said:
San Francisco passport agency
Sept 1996 bulletin
CALIFORNIA BIRTH ABSTRACTS NO LONGER ACCEPTABLE FOR PASSPORT
Effective immediately California birth abstracts such as the one shown below are not acceptable for proof of citizenship. Computer programming used in creating these birth abstracts shows the county of issue as the place of birth even if the person was born in a foreign country. Because of this California birth abstracts are not acceptable as proof of birth in the US.
Unfortunately, I wasn't close enough to get a picture of the image.
And yet the U.S. State Department finds the Hawaiian Certificates of Live Birth are sufficient for passport applications.
Butterdezillion,
What this means is, ever since Hawaii started sending out the computerized versions of the b.c., NOBODY born in Hawaii can get a passport, security clearance, defense dept job; anything that requires the certified copy ofthe the actual LFBC.
Anything “govt” needs the real deal...
butterdezillion wrote:
The certification statement for Hawaii certifies that a document is a true copy OR ABSTRACT of the original record on file. And the abstract is all that the Hawaii DOH will allow anybody to see now. Period. A computer printout.
And they do call it a “Certificate of Live Birth”. A standard copy of a birth certificate is authorized to be made by film,photocopy,or typing. Not by computer. But all the HDOH will issue is abstracts -computer printouts of the INFORMATION,not a copy of the actual record.
It’s as illegal as heck,but it’s what they do. Along with a bunch of other illegal things.
What about for security clearances?
For those, the applicant needs to show where their parents were born.
For that they need their own LFBC to show not only who their parents were, but also the nationality of the parents.
If one of the parents were born overseas or isn’t a citizen, then it makes it difficult to pass the background check.
Security guys care about “ foreign involvement “.
Thanks for the clarification, I wasn’t aware of the full story, merely the initial tie-in by Wash Times.
See my comment at post 24.
Posting from an iPhone isn’t the easiest thing. . .
Why would the government rely on your birth certificate for information about your parents? That information is self reported and can hardly be relied on.
If you look at Standard Form 86 (Questionnaire for National Security Positions), you will see that there is a section in which you report about the citizenship of relatives and associates. If, for example, the relatives or associates are citizens other than by birth, you have to provide information such as their naturalization number. That is verifiable information.
When you get a birth certificate, the state is certifying the information relating to the event recorded. For your birth, they are recording that a boy or girl was born on a specific date in a specific location. They are not certifying the birth place of your parents. Shoot, if it comes down to that, how many birth certificates contain the wrong dad? The state will report the name given of the father, but they don’t provide DNA tests.
Along with that sf86 form, they do want an official long form (NOT short form) birth certificate with a raised seal**.
This provides points of information to be cross checked.
**Raised seal is important; security guys have been known to make the applicant send for a fresh certified copy because the raised seal on the original had been compressed over the years.
http://www.cityoforange.org/depts/cityclerk/passport.asp
It has been known for sometime that Califonia and Texas BCs must be long form to get a passport.
"What is a certified birth certificate?"
"Certified birth certificates are generally issued by the county clerk’s office in the county where you were born. A certified birth certificate usually has a raised, embossed, impressed or multicolored seal, registrar’s signature, and the date the certificate was filed with the registrar’s office, which must be within 1 year of your birth. Please note that certain birth certificates issued in Texas or California are called “abstract” birth certificates – these abstract birth certificates are not accepted by the federal government."
http://www.uspassportservice.com/faq/certified-birth-certificate/
The US State Department website only says that "some" short forms may not be accepted.
"*A certified birth certificate has a registrar's raised, embossed, impressed or multicolored seal, registrar's signature, and the date the certificate was filed with the registrar's office, which must be within 1 year of your birth. Please note, some short (abstract) versions of birth certificates may not be acceptable for passport purposes."
http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/first/first_830.html#step3first
Using Robert Redford’s line from the ending scene of “Three Days of the Condor” as its base...
They act like not getting caught in a lie is the same as telling the truth.
I know you are aware of this but just for the record. Hawaiian statutes provide for computer printouts for certified copies and Hawaiian DOH Administrative rules only require the long form not be a computer printout but the "abbreviated copy" can be.
Hawaiian statutes
§338-13 Certified copies. (a) Subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18, the department of health shall, upon request, furnish to any applicant a certified copy of any certificate, or the contents of any certificate, or any part thereof.
(b) Copies of the contents of any certificate on file in the department, certified by the department shall be considered for all purposes the same as the original, subject to the requirements of sections 338-16, 338-17, and 338-18.
(c) Copies may be made by photography, dry copy reproduction, typing, computer printout or other process approved by the director of health. [L 1949, c 327, §17; RL 1955, §57-16; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §19; HRS §338-13; am L 1978, c 49, §1]
http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0013.htm
The last time that section was amended was in 1978.
Hawaiian Administrative Rules:
Chapter 8B 2.4 B Standards for Copies of Vital Records
(1) Standard Copy (a) Method of Preparation. Standard copies of vital records may be prepared by photographic, dry copy reproduction process, or typing. ...
[skip]
(2) Abbreviated Copy. Abbreviated copies may be prepared by typing, computer printout or by any other process approved by the Director.
http://gen.doh.hawaii.gov/sites/har/AdmRules1/8%208A%20B%20VR%20Admin%20Rules.pdf
Right. A standard copy cannot be produced as a computer printout, but must be produced by photography, dry copy reproduction, or typing.
Only the abbreviated copy/contents of the certificate (an abstract) can be produced by a computer printout.
When a person requests a standard copy they SHALL be given one. When they request all or a portion of the CONTENT of the certificate (an abstract) they SHALL be given that.
The statute gives the director authority to determine the method of reproduction for “copies”, but the Administrative Rules already state how STANDARD copies will be made while allowing the Director to decide other ways of making abstracts. The Director can lawfully change the method for producing standard birth certificates BUT ONLY BY AMENDING THE ADMINISTRATIVE RULES, which requires public notification, public hearings, and formal approval. That has not happened since 1976. Anything specifically stated in the Administrative Rules in 1976 is thus still in effect, and the Director cannot change that without going through the formal amendment process.
Fuddy is in violation of the law by not providing standard copies upon request, as required by 338-13(a). She has not followed any of the required procedures to change the method of production for standard copies.
“When a person requests a standard copy they SHALL be given one. When they request all or a portion of the CONTENT of the certificate (an abstract) they SHALL be given that.”
§338-13 Certified copies. (a) ...the department of health shall, upon request, furnish to any applicant a certified copy of any certificate, or the contents of any certificate, or any part thereof.
IIRC, what you said was the heart of Duncan Sunahara’s lawsuit against the DOH and the Hawaii court ruled against him saying that the DOH decides which one a person gets.
He is appealing that ruling. I Don’t know the status of the appeal.
Here is Sunahara’s appeal brief:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/110606460/HI-APPEAL-Sunahara-v-HIDOH-et-al-Appellants-Opening-Brief
And the response:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/110606437/HI-APPEAL-Sunahara-v-HIDOH-et-al-State-Appellees-Answering-Brief
OK lets look at the instance where the applicant is-
born in the us
to two us citizen parents,
therefore there will be no naturalization number.
How then will the investigators checking the self reported info entered on the form sf86 verify the info?
The birth cert of the applicant has what the applicants parents said.
There has to be a chain of documents going from the applicant to the parents, this would start with the long form birth cert for the applicant that lists the parents.
Then the investigators need documentation to support “ two citizen parents”.
Thanks to y’all for all the research into this, especially the Hawaii rules & concerning the last time they were updated.
My husband lives in california, and last year ran into the ‘abstract-not-ok-for-govt-use’ when he applied for VA benefits and for his passport.
All he ever had was the New York area hospital short-form abstract.
In both instances he had to send away for the long form certified copy and include it with the apps.
“...the DOH decides which one a person gets.”
Wow. Really? Are they that corrupt in that state? Don’t answer that.
Clearly the intent is that if a certified copy is requested the department SHALL issue it. If the contents are requested the department SHALL issue that. If any part of the contents without the whole set being requested the department SHALL issue that.
The ‘decision’ of the DOH to issue any ‘one of the three’ is almost without a a doubt in the category of arbitrary and capacious. HOW would the department decide which to issue. It is impossible to determine without arbitrary and capacious decision making.
Yes, they believe not getting caught in a lie is the same as telling the truth. But they are different. You have to keep lying to cover up the first lie. So how far does Hawaii go on with this? Probably till one of their own goes to jail.
An interesting link from the past on the subject of the status of the COLB.
http://www.wnd.com/2009/07/103408/
In between 6/8/2009 and 6/18/2009 Hawaii’s DHHL changed the requirement of LFBC only to accepting COLBs.
Bluecat,
Thanks for the link!
I wonder if any folks born in Hawaii have had trouble getting passports or security clearances based on what Hawaii is doing now.
What’s your take on the points raised upthread concerning the govt forms and anecdote about difficulty getting benefits and passport?
Hawaii documents have to be absolute worst in the nation. They really have no security features at all in them.
The dumbing down of Hawaii state issued documents has been underway for a long time. Peter Boy’s COLB proves this.
And because the court ordered his records opened the Hawaii DHS had them posted on their website for years. Easy access. Direct.
Not now. The Peter Boy COLB raises the question of when and why did Hawaii use less secure forms for their certified copies and COLBs? When and why?
It would seem after 1991 - When Peter Boy’s COLB was created. In 1991 Hawaii was using forms with more secure feature than they do currently. Why did they take a step back? When did they take a step back?
http://imageshack.us/a/img6/4746/peterboycertificate.jpg
http://archives.starbulletin.com/2006/03/16/news/story16.html
More discussion I posted in other thread here....
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/bloggers/3005060/posts?page=156
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