Posted on 05/31/2012 6:39:59 AM PDT by Michael.SF.
Even as total outstanding student debt rises to $1 trillion, lawmakers have yet to allow loans to be discharged in bankruptcy.
Without an escape clause, these loans can strangle a person.
Take 36-year-old Nick Keith, who remains $142,000 in debt eight years after graduating from culinary school. He's featured in a new film, "Default: The Student Loan Documentary," in which several college graduates expose the pitfalls of the private student loan industry.
"I want to educate the public about the facts," Keith said. "My life has become a daily swim in a tar pit with very little hope of ever getting out."
Keith's father only agreed to co-sign a student loan if he stuck with an engineering degree at Iowa State University, but even with decent grades, he knew it wasn't a right fit.
He dropped out sophomore year and later turned to the California Culinary Academy–without his dad as a safety net–hoping to put his love for healthy eating to use.
"The culinary academy commercials were on the Food Network every 15 minutes," he said, and only required 12 months of study with a three month externship.
He fell for their sales pitch, hook line and sinker
"I should have seen all the signs. [The campus tour guide] had a used car salesman answer for everything," Keith recalls.
(Excerpt) Read more at finance.yahoo.com ...
***years community college= $6,500
2 years state university = $16,000***
But what if you transfer to a 4 year university after two years of community college?
After two years of community college, using the same teachers and textbooks as the state university uses, students often find that their community college courses do not count toward graduation by the state U and they have to take them over again.
My daughter fell into that trap.
Well put, Mista Jeeves. I was making, I think, the same point in my #38, but you probably said it better.
Four year State Universities encourage kids to ignore their parents and take courses to prepare for nonexistent careers. Over half of recent college graduates are not getting any benefits from their education and are either living at home and not working or working at $10 per hour type jobs with limited hours, no benefits and no career path. Everyone is lying to young people and their parents. Politicians, bureaucrats, “educators”, counselors etc.
High School has been dumbed down, college has been dumbed down. Young people are lied to and confused. They have no plans for adult responsibility. They just want to live with mom and dad and have someone else support them.
student loans were dischargable in bankruptcy.
The problem is that non-dischargability has created a “worthless degree” industry.
What is needed is a non-dischargability window. If after 5 years there is no viable job openings, THEN loans become dischargable.
Remember some states offer STUDENT LOAN forgivness programs for every year you work in the government.
This would also be a way to deal with runaway university costs. Since universities have no risk for basket weaving degrees, they can charge as much as possible based on just issuing a degree.
If he let the loans go into default, then they can easily triple the loan amount through penalities. This is probably how it got to 142K.
He may be stupid but this is Usury and immoral.
He should still have to pay the original loan off with reasonable interest.
If the guy had finished up his engineering degree at Iowa State, he could have named his own rate of pay in many locations.
The university should bear the risk for allowing worthless degrees.
The universities should not be safe in the ivory tower from ecconomic reality.
The universities are protected via non-dischargability. This makes them free to sell snake oil claims as to the value of “their” degree. (this is why students are suing universities)
universities were a place to become well rounded, then they became a place for meal tickeets, now they are a baby sitting service for the immature (and that includes the professors)
Your analogy fails because you can’t take back an education (loosly defined). A degree means a GOOD job. Just look at any college brochure. All make the “grads make more” claims.
Perhaps we should look at shutting down a few universities and pointless grad schools.
This would make sense if the debt were dischargeable to the university that awarded the worthless degree. Otherwise, it would further incentivize students to major in (and universities to offer) worthless degree programs.
I think a lot of it is the parents. My generation (and the ones before it) are somewhat gullible because we came from a time when a college degree (ANY degree that time) actually meant something. It really did mean a better job, higher wages and a better standard of living. It set you apart.
We parents are still buying into it even though we’re living in a time when EVERYONE is getting a degree of some kind. We even send them to school to learn a trade that would previously been learned on the job. When they get out, they start at the same place they would have started without trade school... the bottom. But with student loans and no experience.
the value of a university degree (and graduate) has gone waaaaaaaay down since then.
It is like law school. A short two or three decades ago it was look to your left look to your right, one will not be here. Now it is absurdly easy to get into law school. There are more first year seats than first year applicants.
These are cash machines for universities despite the utter over supply of facilities.
Hard reasearch can be done via outsourced grunt labor from overseas which only needs a tech degree.
It really is Brave New World.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek5vse2_Aq0
(full 1980 movie)
that is why you make the university liable for issuing the worthless degree.
The goal would be to restore meritocracy in admissions. If a university KNOWS that a worthless graduate will become a liability, then the university will have no incentive to admit unqualified students.
The lenders would be able to look to the university as guarantors.
Wow, that sucks. Not sure what CC system that is.
My brother’s AA degree got him into Johns Hopkins as a Jr. His diploma from Hopkins is the exact same as the one people who paid for 4 years there get.
Student loan aren’t dischargable because the government guarantees them, without that guarantee they’d be normal loans with the normal loan approval process and most students would be denied because nobody would give out loans based on possible future income.
All that being said though people need to stop whining. They have so few avenues to go after you on student loans, and once you show any level of delinquency your loan will get sold every 6 months. Yeah there will be phone calls and mails, get a job, get it together, start paying when you can. Though anybody going six figures in for any degree that doesn’t include letters like “dr” or “phd” is a moron.
“They will openly and repeatedly tell the kids they are an ‘adult’ and their parents don’t control them any more. Exactly what kids want to hear.
Sure this guy is dumb for getting that deep into debt. However what the universities are doing is unethical and immoral.”
Sure, but it is up to the parents to EXERT THEIR AUTHORITY, which exists until the kid can move out and exist on his own. In this case the dad did pretty good - he told junior to either get a degree that can make him some money, or go it alone. It sounds like good guidance to me. As to the college scamming him - yes, but it only works when junior doesn’t trust his parents.
“Today, both are engineers with zero student loan debt. We hated to urge them to postpone their “superstar” dreams, however impractical, but now they are free and equipped to live life as they wish.”
Don’t even think that. My mother insisted that I get a useful college degree BEFORE trying to start an auto repair business (my dream). I got the degree, make great money with it (especially since I live in low-tax Texas), and have enough tools and equipment to fix anything on my half-dozen cars.
If I hadn’t listened to her...I’d probably be working at Jiffy Lube doing oil changes.
Parents do serve a purpose and you (and my mom) certainly served that purpose.
I agree. It’s time to change the bankruptcy law. Hopefully, there’ll be grassroots movement to force Congress to allow students discharge college loans in a bankruptcy.
So you’re ok with what the schools are doing?
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