Posted on 04/27/2012 5:36:19 AM PDT by stickandrudder
A man who allegedly killed his 13-year-old half-sister survived a fusillade of bullets from New York City police officers early Tuesday, after pointing his pistol at officers.
Officers responded to a 911 call at 2971 Eighth St. in Harlem at 3:27 a.m. Tuesday.
Steven Murray, 28, had allegedly shot his mother Christine Fryar, 44, and her daughter Annie, according to the NYPD. Paramedics arrived to find the daughter dead with a gunshot wound to the head. The mother, who was also shot in the head, was transported to Harlem Hospital, and is listed in critcal condition.
Police eventually confronted Murray, who was running through the surrounding neighborhood. The officers pursued Murray on foot and returned fire after he fired one shot.
NYPD Sgt. Alexander Mesa fired 39 shots, and Officer Joseph Robinson got off 45 rounds. Murray was hit 14 times, and refused to drop his weapon, reports the New York Daily News.
Murray has been charged with murder and attempted murder.
Pistols just aren’t all that accurate and it sounds like this was a running gunfight.
A rifle might be a better option in a situation like this. Better to let the guy gain a few yards while taking careful aim and squeezing off one shot.
That said, rifles have their own drawbacks.
Women and little guys can’t shoot the .45 well and they hold less ammo. Same reason the Army went to 9mm. Besides, the .40 hits harder anyway.
It was a good day in Vienna! /s lol
Were they shooting revolvers?
14/85 wouldn’t allow them to requalify at the firing range, but then paper targets don’t shoot back. I very much doubt there were any warning shots or “suppression fire.” Police are trained to “shoot center of mass” until the threat is no longer a threat. Sounds like that’s what happened here.
How much reading have you done about real-world shooting incidents of this nature?
I haven’t done all that much, and I know that this really isn’t bad shooting. In fact, it is at least average for a two-way range encounter, based on what I’ve read.
Real world shooting incidents aren’t the same as being at the qualifying range.
I'm guessin' there weren't any NYers in the first 27 posts...at least any that are aware of there own city.
...or there could be some foul odors coming from some nearby apartments in the coming week.
In a civilian community, outside of war conditions like falujia, suppression fire is criminally negligent. Bullets don’t stop after they miss. They could have killed innocent bystanders.
No one is on them for shooting, but how about controled fire? Their random fire could have killed an innocent.
Heard some have returned to revolvers to improve their fire control.
Maybe they were holding their guns sideways to look cool!
“Jury nullification” gets a quick trip out of the courtroom, too.
I thought cops had shotguns, too... Did they forget? Didn’t someone grab one, just to be different?
they Shoot to live
By
Father David Epps
A few weeks ago, a rookie police officer from a north Atlanta suburb faced the horror dreaded by all cops and their families. The suspect, a 20 year-old alleged deserter from the Army, fired his weapon point blank into the chest of the 28 year-old patrol officer. The stricken officer, protected from the potentially fatal round by his bullet-resistant vest, fell to the ground and, although suffering injury from the tremendous impact of the bullet, returned fire, along with another officer. In a few violent seconds, it was over. The fugitive from the Army will not have to be concerned about serving out his enlistment. He died at the scene. Once and a while, someone will ask, “Do the police shoot to kill?” The simple answer to that question is, “No.” But, on the other hand, the answer is not so simple. The average citizen cannot possibly imagine how suddenly a routine traffic stop, warrant service, or interview can turn sour. In the movies, the bad guys can be seen planning and calculating their next move and, when the action starts, the cops dive for cover, call back-up, and a gun battle ensues for the next fifteen minutes. The cops and the bad guys chase each other through the streets of the city, firing scores of rounds, and, amazingly, even exchanging taunts.
In real life, such a scene almost never happens,- for in real life, the violence explodes without warning, lasts an average of 3.5 seconds, with five rounds being exchanged from a distance of three to seven feet. Think about that... one thousand one, one thousand two, one thousand three . . and then it’s over. Someone is dead or screaming in agony. If the suspect is down, the officer, with shaking hands, will cuff him and call for an ambulance. If the suspect is bleeding profusely, the officer will try to administer first aid and save the life of the man who just tried to kill him. Officers have even been known to pray at such moments, pleading with God to spare the assailant’s life. If, on the other hand, the officer is on the ground, more likely than not, the suspect will walk over to him, point his still smoking pistol at the officer’s head, and pull the trigger. He will then steal the officer’s own weapon and flee into the night. An hour or two later, the chief and the chaplain will pay a dreadful visit to the officer’s spouse and children.
There is no time to talk the suspect down, no time to “shoot the weapon out of the bad guy’s hand,” no opportunity to carefully aim from cover and concealment and fire to wound. Officers are trained to aim for the “center mass” of the suspect’s body and continue to fire until the threat is ended. “That cop fired nine bullets!” a civilian might protest. “He shot too many times! He was out to kill that guy!” You weren’t there. You have no idea. It wasn’t your life on the line. You just don’t have a clue. If an officer is inclined to make a mistake, he or she is much more likely to hesitate to shoot for that all-important split-second than they are to fire prematurely. Most officers have strong moral codes, have an aversion to killing, became cops to help people, and have been well-schooled in how likely cops are to be sued. This hesitation may well result in the officer’s death. Criminals who would fire on a police officer have no such moral restraints. They do not hesitate.
Police officers and deputies are not trained to shoot to kill. They are trained to “shoot to live.” They are not, regardless of how much anti-law enforcement types might whine, trying to take a suspect’s life. They are simply trying, desperately, in a few terror-filled seconds, to somehow survive the encounter and go home to spouse and family at the end of the shift. They are “shooting to live.”
If they do shoot a suspect, and the criminal dies, cops are more likely than not to have severe depression, to experience sleepless nights, endure post traumatic stress, and be overwhelmed with guilt. He or she will be more at risk than other officers to experience a divorce, become an alcoholic, and take their own life. He will have had 3.5 seconds to “shoot to live” while the press, the public, and the courts will have years and decades to second-guess the officer and wonder why he didn’t “shoot the gun out of the bad guy’s hand.”
I have two sons who are on the streets as police officers. Tonight, they will pull over a car on some dark roadside or will investigate an alarm call. If the moment ever comes, which I pray it does not, I pray that they will respond to their training. I pray that they will not hesitate, no, not for one second. Then, if their life hangs in the balance, I pray that, in that 3.5 seconds of heart-stopping, throat-choking horror, they will “shoot to live.”
I pray their aim will be true. I pray they will come home to their families safe and uninjured. And, then, the next night, and the next, they will face it all over again night after night, year after year. They, and tens of thousands of men and women like them, are cops. It’s what they do.
Maybe that has something to do with the 450 million rounds of ammo order. LOL!!!!
See #58
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