Posted on 02/13/2012 7:41:48 PM PST by djf
For most of us, our home is our refuge. There is even an old proverb: a man’s home is his castle. But what happens if there is an intruder? Or worse, an intruder whose intent is bodily harm toward you or your family members regardless of the reason? How would you defend yourself and, more specifically, would you shoot someone? Could you shoot someone?
I have struggled with the answer to these questions and more, because, if there were a collapse of society – a true SHTF situation – there is a strong likelihood that I would be placed in a position to defend myself, my homestead and my stuff. And therein lies the problem. I am not at all sure I could shoot someone. As a matter of fact, I am pretty sure I could not.
There, I said it. For in spite of the fact that we have shopped for a suitable weapon for someone of my size and gender, and in spite of the fact I have researched classes and shooting ranges where I could practice and become proficient, I personally do not think I could not do it.
And you know what? My informal poll of others – both men and women – has told me that about 50% of us – if we dig down deep – feel the same way. I could not shoot with the intent to harm.
Sure, I know that shooting someone is not the question. The question really is “Can you safely defend yourself and your family against a life threatening situation or attack?” And if the answer is “I don’t know” or even “No”, then you have a problem. I know I do.
From the way I see it, we have three basic issues:
What are the circumstances where we should use extreme force to defend ourselves? Will I end up in jail or prison for exercising my right to defend myself and my family? How do I defend myself especially if I am uncomfortable around guns?
What are the circumstances where we should use extreme force to defend ourselves?
In my mind, you are justified in using force – lethal or otherwise – against another human being if, and only if, there is immediate and unavoidable danger of death or grave bodily harm to an innocent person. So by my definition, someone stealing my stuff does not qualify. Neither would revenge for something that happened yesterday.
Breaking this down, this means that the threat would have to be now, not yesterday and not tomorrow. “I am going to come and get you tomorrow” would not qualify by my definition.
Will I end up in jail or prison for exercising my right to defend myself and my family?
Good question. The answer is maybe. There is something called the Castle Doctrine that dictates, on a state by state basis, the circumstances where you can legally defend yourself from bodily harm. Notice that I said bodily harm and not destruction or theft of property.
Castle doctrine derives from English Common Law, and broadly affirms that the lawful occupants of a dwelling has the right to use force, up to and including deadly force, to protect against attack. Depending on individual state law, Castle Doctrine generally applies only if you have a “reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily harm” to yourself or to others.
Like I said, Castle Doctrine varies from state to state and some states have something called “Stand Your Ground” instead. Still, as a generalization, protections offered include the following:
Reinforced right to use deadly force: You have the right to use deadly force if you have an immediate and reasonable fear of imminent death or great bodily harm. In some cases, the “reasonable fear” is presumed if someone attempts to make a forcible and unlawful entry into your residence or, in some states, vehicle.
No duty to retreat: The laws generally reinforce your right to “stand your ground” when attacked, rather than having to attempt to flee, provided you reasonably believe force is necessary to prevent death or great bodily injury and provided you are lawfully in the place you occupy.
Immunity from criminal prosecution: In cases of justifiable use of deadly force, police or other law enforcement authorities may generally investigate but not arrest you unless they find probable cause that the force used was unlawful.
Immunity from civil action: In cases of justifiable use of deadly force, a plaintiff (e.g. the family of the perpetrator) is barred from civil action and may be required to pay attorney’s fees and court costs from bringing such action against you.
How do I defend myself especially if I am uncomfortable around guns?
Okay, here are the choices that I have come up with in no particular order:
Chemical Sprays (pepper spray , bear spray, wasp killer) Martial arts Firearms (shotgun, rifle, pistol) Battering devices (batons, fireplace pokers, baseball bats) Stun Guns If SHTF, Could You and Would You Shoot Someone? Knives Avoidance (hiding, running away)
6205322443 31d7429d25 If SHTF, Could You and Would You Shoot Someone?I do want to note that most self defense instructors will say that avoiding, or running away or even hiding from the danger or confrontation is by far the best thing to do. Unfortunately, that may not always be a viable and safe option.
For me, having a combination of these self-defense mechanisms is best. This will allow both Survival Husband and myself to choose the very best option particular to the threat and our personal comfort lever (again “to shoot” or “not to shoot”).
Summary
Ask yourself if you are ready for the chaos created by SHTF, in whatever form it might take. Also think about putting together a “SHTF Self Defense and Intruder Safety Plan”.
Here are some tips to get started:
1. The first step is to talk to your spouse, partner and/or other family members about your individual feelings a toward guns, knives and other self defense weapons. This is not the time for BS. It is best to be honest with yourself now, before the need to defend yourself is called in to action.
2. Examine some what-if scenarios and think about what additional information you need in order to become comfortable with your plan and with a possible “shoot” or don’t shoot” decision.
3. Invest in the gear and the skills you know you will use and then learn how to use them. The gear and skills that you select for one family member may be different than those chosen for another family member. One may choose a firearm and the other may choose a combination of chemical sprays and martial arts.
4. Respect the skills and mindset of your family members or others in your household. There is no right and no wrong.
5. Educate yourself regarding the Castle Doctrine Laws in your state and use them as a guideline in formulating your plan. Keep in mind, however, that if there is a SHTF situation, there may no longer be a government so any existing laws or rules may not apply.
The Final Word
The more you think about these things in advance, the more confident you will become in your ability to make a good decision under stress when defending yourself and your loved ones is the only choice your have.
To learn more about the Castle Doctrine Laws specific to your state, visit this link: The Castle Doctrine.
Enjoy your next adventure through common sense and thoughtful preparation!
Gaye
If it’s me or him - I pick him - Bang.
I don’t think I’d like the alternative.
I actually pretended to be killing an attacker right before I would leave to walk home at night. The ladies at work sure wondered at me, but when I explained why I doing it they seemed OK with it. I would practice for a little before I left because I felt I wanted the reflex fresh in my mind. An attacker (thank God none materialized) sure would have gotten more than he bargained for, maybe even death. Attackers may often not expect someone to be mentally prepared and rely on the shock factor with someone becoming frozen with fear.
The most important thing I did when I walked home alone past lonely places was to pray for God's protection. I am always praying for my loved ones and myself, that The LORD keeps us safe, as only He can ultimately do.
If you’re a wuss, I’m the world’s biggest sissy...LOL
I’ve even carefully removed lady bugs off of fly paper and gently bathed the goop off of them successfully.
[moths are a lot harder but often still doable]
I have caught and carried off enormous, scary spiders that actually have me shrieking the whole way outside....LOL
All summer long, I pick up the bees, wasps, hornets and whatnot that have “run out of gas” straying too far from their nests, given them raw honey and let them loose the next day break.
There’s a huge colony of ants in my lane that I ‘rope off’ every year so the UPS driver doesn’t park on their mounds.
I’m pitiful.
;D
This is a very important and logical question. Could I shoot someone? Many will just blurt out YES YES.
I can tell you for a fact that it is not that easy and the aftermath is problematic.
Killing someone is final. Could you do it?
Reverse side.
As an old cop I have learned that if you hesitate at the ultimate moment you are dead.
Some people simply should not have a weapon because they will not use it or they will use it incorrectly.
You must decide in your mind before anything happens what you will do.
Steel yourself if you are serious.
Other wise just forget it. You will be a victim
To protect my family, absolutely. I’d regret it afterwards though. Ammo is hard to come by here ....
“But when you think about it, is there any difference between a run-of-the-mill break-in/robbery or a true disaster/SHTF/societal breakdown kind of thing?”
Maybe yes.
Survivalwoman wrote: “In my mind, you are justified in using force – lethal or otherwise – against another human being if, and only if, there is immediate and unavoidable danger of death or grave bodily harm to an innocent person.”
In a major SHTF situation, not post hurricane or post earthquake waiting for society to get organized again like it was, but a colossal societal breakdown where society won’t be the same again for a long time if ever, that does not apply. It will be more like warfare, not at the national level but at the clan or tribal level.
If someone or some group is raiding you and yours, you don’t wait for them to come. You go and hunt them down, if you can of course. You wipe them out. If they have raided you and yours you don’t let them get away when they try to. You eliminate them, shooting them in the back as they try to leave if necessary (that’s safest after all).
If you don’t, they will come again and again till you have nothing left to come for. Then maybe they’ll just take you.
If the SHTF is a colossal societal breakdown where society won’t be the same again for a long time if ever, don’t expect any relief from the situation except what you and yours can accomplish. And in that accomplishment, for the sake of future mankind and re-establishing civilization, try not to become a raider that someone else has to hunt down.
You raise a good point. Hear about people freezing often enough that you start to wonder how many can actually take a life.
At the moment, some thug breaks in and you pull a gun or a blade and the chances are they will take off like their pants are on fire.
Shoot in their general direction and they definitely will, no matter how much you miss by.
In a true TSHTF scenario, they won’t run.
Ok. You win. I am not that bad.
You don't have to be a "no-mercy, unadulterated killer" to use deadly force to protect the lives and property of you and your loved ones, when they're being threatened with deadly violence.
It would be unmerciful in the extreme for a person to have to "think about it", when mere seconds separate them or their loved ones from death or other serious harm.
The time might come when people have to band together, with whatever talents they have. An older person or person who has religious objections to killing might still have very valuable talents and be a major contributor, while others take on the duties of guarding and defending.
That's a very romantic picture you paint, but ultimately, it's utopian for a SHTF situation. Perhaps such communities would eventually form, but those who managed to survive the worst of the apocalypse would probably be strong survivor types, who had no reservations or hesitations about self defense.
The rest would already be dead.
Absolutely. It is our obligation to stand between the evil and the innocent.
I would shoot them with a gun
I would shoot them in the sun
I would shoot them here and there
I would shoot them anywhere..
On a boat, with a goat
Off a train, in the rain.
I would shoot them with my Sig
I would shoot them near a pig
I would shoot them in the can.....
I would shoot them Sam I Am.
Once I ran water for a bath and got busy and forgot about it. Later I found a pretty butterfly apparently dead and drowned in the water. I took it into the other room, laid it on the floor and prayed for it. Soon it was up and flying! If you find a bug in water, I have found, that if it appears drowned sometimes it will revive if you do tiny compressions on it's middle. Also, a prayer, of course, helps.
It's fun to find other bug savers! I come by it easy as both my parents were bug savers too. My dad more so than my mom.
I say there is no difference because:
SHTF=You are in mortal danger
Break-in/robbery=You are in mortal danger (any other conclusion and you are DEAD!)
Here in the state of Washington you can use lethal force to stop a felony. Stealing or damaging something worth more than $250 is a felony.
That said, I would not under the present circumstances shoot someone as they are pushing my lawnmower down the street.
But as you mention, in a SHTF case don’t try to walk off with the pot of beans sitting on the fire.
HOWEVER - it does bring up the situation of having neighbors that you may need to share with. I guess it will be a case of “what can you do for me”, and how nicely they ask.
If it becomes necessary I will do so without any hesitation whatsoever.
Pu$$y.
I agree. The whole idea of talents and sharing is a big part of the equation.
Some old (or even young) woman might not be worth a rats rear with a gun, but they would be willing to sew from sunup till sundown. Heck, I have at least ten pairs of jeans that have another two years of life in them if they were patched!
There’s an old fellow, probably in his early 70’s who lives around the corner from me. VERY accomplished woodworker.
And every year, this guy has a garden TO DIE FOR. Seriously!
So it isn’t just a bunch of guys killing everything in sight that are going to re-civilize the world.
It’s all of us. Our likes and our dislikes.
But bottom line will be that EVERYBODY will have to bring something valuable to the table.
Whiners will need not apply!!
This article is written from a woman’s point of view. Very educational for all of us. Good read, great understanding of the situation.
http://corneredcat.com/Contents/
A mathematician in me sees a logical flaw in your statement. Here it is corrected. Whatever decision you make you will have to live with it for the rest of your life. The decision only defines how long that will be.
He’s OK, but he still isn’t the same person he was before the shooting.
We live and change every day. Our cells die and new cells take their place. Human bodies are periodically completely replaced. Experience of life changes our psyche every day; aging changes our health every day. You'd need to live in a bubble in hope to remain the same; you'd still fail at that. Of course traumatic experiences change people more. But if SHTF all experiences will be traumatic.
You may need to do it to save your life or save your family
Or life of other innocents. In the end it is all reduced to Dostoevsky's "Crime and Punishment." Larry Niven's Ringworld depicts Pak Protectors who have more or less the same problem.
Got Hogs? check
Bad guys = hog chow
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