Posted on 12/01/2011 9:29:16 PM PST by Stonewall Jackson
I have a friend and colleague who is moving to Fairbanks next week and he is looking for a pistol to carry in grizzly country. He is an avid outdoorsman and will be hunting up there on a regular basis, but the only pistol he currently owns is a Browning 9mm.
He'd thought about getting a 1911A1, but I've pretty much convinced him that a .45ACP is okay against black bears, but is too slow hitting for effective use against grizzlies.
I agree...I was concerned about the loads so I called Winchester about the Takedown (a Carbine)....they said ANY commercially manufactured ammo (45LC - including 300 GR) is safe to shoot in it....none of the other firearms’ manufacturers recommend that same cartridge that I can see.
Oh...and about the PG shotgun....try looking into a Knoxx recoil grip...they are GREAT! Significantly reduces the recoil...
I use a Siaga 12 now.
It reduces recoil dramatically.
I almost went for one of those. Backordered at the gunstore...Went for a 930SPX Tactical Mossberg...
Um...methinks you miss the point, which had nothing to do with reloading nor accuracy.
A 5.7mm round vs. grizzly will do little more than give him a very good reason to kill you.
I got in before the craze.
In theory, a large North American animal engaged with a single round from a 5n7 is like you or I being attacked by a hornet. One hornet won't deter us but a nest of them coming at us will.
If a large animal is charging, the usefulness of a 5n7 is to place many hits into the animal and thereby distract it enough that it doesn't fully carry through with it's charge. Each slug striking it is like the blow from a machinists ball peen hammer. Once the animal diverts it's charge, the 5n7 enables you to continue sending a swarm of "hornets" into it and cause it to run away. Volume of fire on target is the key in such case.
Go read the link carefully and stop trying to justify this insanity. There are few stories on there how small caliber handguns do not do the job even the .44 Magnum doesn’t get it done all the time. Killing varmints and human intruders is a job the 57 does well. I like the 57 it is an excellent weapon and I intend to get one. However it is not meant to deal with bears, moose or any large dangerous animals period. The bullet mass of the 57x28 round (even the military version) is too light and its penetration effects does not have the power to make the massive wounds required to severely wound or kill a large animal like the big hardcast slugs can. Even the lower velocity heavies are superior in this regard as they put one big mass right on target with nearly a ton or more of muzzle energy.
Some gun owners really go overboard and think their weapon of choice can do more than it really can. Many people go to war thinking that their weapons system can do all these things but the reality of combat often proves those theories wrong no matter how well thought out as the unexpected usually happens. The voice of experience always proves true.
Oh, and you’re not going to get enough rounds off to worry about reloading.
Your typo hysterically enhances your point.
Here, I’ve got some extras you can use: ...
I did.
“Fish and Game dispatched a problem bear and cleaned a grizzly in Anchorage that had a multitude of 9mm under his pelt.”Seems that the multitude of 9mm didn't kill the problem bear but the problem bears didn't appear to harm the human(s) they were causing problems to either. Therefore, the 9mm did it's job as intended. Furthermore, old timers managed to get by with single shot black powder.
All this having been said, If I'm ever fortunate enough go salmon fishing in Alaska, I'll carry a large bore sidearm on my side while fishing. When on the way to and from the fishing spot, I'll have my short barreled 12 guage handy.
Your selectively pulling information from that post and it is unclear that all that was fired at that bear killed it. In fact this states that a multiple number of calibers did not stop it. I bet it was a .454, high powered rifle or shotgun that finished this beast off. Here is the full quote for the record:
““Fish and Game dispatched a problem bear and cleaned a grizzly in Anchorage that had a multitude of 9mm under his pelt.”
I’ve read where Fish and Game have captured and killed a bear after it had mauled or killed a hunter or hiker. They do find multiple small caliber rounds (.38 – 9mm – .40cal ) in the animal that did nothing to STOP it.
They key word when dealing with dangerous game is to STOP the animal. A charging bear when angry, is almost impossible to stop. Think about it. You’re not at the range here. You’re adrenaline is high, the bear is moving up-down, side to side and coming at you very quickly. The odds of scoring a head shot in a MAN is very low during combat, let along trying to hit a bear. You may hit him in the peripherals or even in center mass, but each trigger pull that does not put him down, he gains yards on you! You cannot stop him if he’s on you! There he will rip your head off.
You need firepower that will penetrate and disperse energy into the animal, over and over when necessary if you miss its head initially. Primates when shot many times can still kill before they drop dead. The bear in this story was old and underweight but still determined and hungry. The bear took the hits yet fell past the shooter, which means he made it to the shooter! Perhaps a younger and healthier bear would have been more formidable for the Casull and the outcome grim. Remember, the shooter had no time to bring the weapon to his eye and had to shoot shot from the hip!!
The .454 Casull was developed for this reason. It has a rifle primer propelling a large caliber bullet in a small package.”
Speaking of jokes, that reminds me of the reason you CARRY a pistol: to fight your way back to the long gun that you should never have walked away from in the first place.
A 5n7 round is going to hurt arguably worse than the bite from a badger yet a badger can defend itself against a grizzly.
I thought you could shoot a slug out of those .50 pistolas they have now.
Plan A: All you need is a BB gun. Put the bear's eye out. Two shots with no recoil, and you're safe. I'm sure most of us can stay calm enough for that in a close encounter (or not).
Plan B: Panic! If you're close enough that you have to shoot, you're too close to get out of there safely. There are no good options in that case, and you have to hope your are physically and equipment-wise prepared for the least terrible option.
True but that was because it appeared multiple separate instances were being discussed and I didn't want to get into each instance.
I've been around FR for many years I've read stories where a charging grizzly was shot point blank with a 30-06 and still mauled the shooter. I can't say I've read an article where a person was mauled after unsuccessfully defending themselves with a sub-magnum caliber handgun but I have read where people successfully defended themselves against bear attack with a cast iron frying pan.
Canadian man kills attacking bear with frying pan http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1147711/posts
Cop Killed Charging Bear With One Shot, 7 Feet Away (Service revolver): http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2795652/posts
Hiker deters Charging Grizzly with Bear Spray: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2794740/posts
Bear runs away after Alaska woman punches it in nose http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2772631/posts
On the other hand:
Man shoots charging grizzly at 10 feet with 30-06 and is still mauled. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2783348/posts
Yep, slug is the best...that’s what we had and used in the Yukon.
We call that an Idaho starter kit.
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