Posted on 10/30/2011 9:02:17 PM PDT by Kevmo
Rebuttal to Krivit's Accusation that Andrea Rossi is a Fraudster
LENR Expert, Steven Krivit, who traveled to Bologna in June, was not impressed with Andrea Rossi's E-Cat reactor technology, and has been highly critical ever since. He has now crossed a line to actually accusing Rossi of running an intentional scam. We don't buy it.
(See also our Oct. 28 coverage: 1 MW E-Cat Cold Fusion Device Test Successful)
Steven Krivit, right, arrived in Bologna on June 15, 2011 to interview Mr. Rossi (left) and to have a look to the E-Cat .
By Sterling D. Allan with Hank Mills
Pure Energy Systems News
Steven Krivit, who has operated a journal for years on Cold Fusion called "New Energy Times", published an scathing piece today called Noble Aspirations Are Not Enough in which he accuses Andrea Rossi, inventor of the cold fusion E-Cat, of running an intentional scam .
Scam? I think that is 99% improbable.
Part of that is because I am privy to some confidential information about an independent validation by a very credible institution that starts with an N .
I would not entirely rule out Steve's accusations of fraud; but I personally find that extremely unlikely. I give it a 1% probability just because I have fooled before by people I thought were genuine but who turned out to be scammers.
I have approached Rossi many times since January with emails I've received from people wanting to invest in his company, or buy units. Every time, he turns them away, saying "wait until after the 1 MW plant test." If he was running a scam, you would think he would have taken this money .
In his press conference in January, Rossi announced that he would be having a 1 MW plant ready for commercial production by October. He has been working feverishly toward that end, putting in 14-18 hour days continuously. I arrived early and am staying late here in Bologna so I could help him with some website content and business strategizing. He agreed to let me come early. But he was so busy by the time I arrived, that he didn't even have time for a meal together, or for me to bring a snack. "I only take 5 minutes for a sandwich," he said .
This is not the behavior of someone running a scam. He is behaving like a man with a mission, with a passion for his work .
Last June, Krivit travelled to Bologna to test Andrea Rossi's system, at Rossi's invite. Krivit was not impressed, and has been highly critical ever since .
Krivit's account of Rossi's telling him about his "ah ha moment" bothers me, but one possible explanation is that Rossi didn't understand the question. He has a hard time understanding spoken English, and he doesn't understand written English perfectly either. Another explanation is that Rossi is extremely guarded about the proprietary aspects of his technology. He doesn't tell anyone everything, and he's only told certain key recipes to a very few people. So in answering such a question, a lot of the hesitation would come from wondering how to describe it without revealing any proprietary information .
I don't have a problem with Rossi's experience with the Petrol Dragon. He was set up by the Italian Mafia because he wouldn't let them get involved in his company. They were behind all of that harassment he received, and from which he was exonerated. I would imagine there is something similar behind the gold trafficking situation as well .
I'm further bolstered by the sentiment I received from Rossi since meeting him in person here in Bologna. He was already friendly toward me by email and phone. A person at the event said that "he is very intuitive when he meets someone." I felt like Rossi liked me a lot more after meeting me, and was even fawning toward me as valued supporter of what he is trying to do for the benefit of humanity. That's what motivates me as well. Some of that favoritism can be seen toward the end of the 1-hour report and Q&A he did at the end of the day on Oct. 28. (Parts I and II of IV are now up at http://youtu.be/nc5K090SZFg and http://youtu.be/1UmoBoAcvxg. We'll be doing a separate story about that. )
No, Rossi is not an academic. He doesn't set up his tests in an academic way. That takes many months or even years. He's in a hurry. I like that about him. I don't have a problem with that in the least. It took four years of airplanes flying around before academics finally admitted they were wrong about man not being able to build flying craft .
Our civilization is on the brink of total meltdown. We need this technology to go to market now. Rossi is doing that. He should be applauded, not harassed .
Now that this first customer has signed off on this technology, and Rossi will be receiving funds, he can pay the half million needed for the University of Bologna and Uppsala University to begin doing their tests, which will take 2 years. I spoke with Associate Professor Loris Ferrari at length about the upcoming testing at the University of Bologna. He will be one of the five or six professors involved. The others are Doctors Levi, Bonetti, Campari, and Villa. The first year will be dedicated to addressing the "how", and the second year will cover the "why", seeking to wrap a good theory around the phenomenon. The first report won't be out for at least a year .
Are you happy with that kind of time frame (for requiring academic sign-off first before moving forward)? Maybe if we had all the time in the world. We don't .
Meanwhile, hopefully millions of customers will be served with product; and mainstream academia will have been shown to be behind the times once again. So if you are a customer or media rep who wants the academic nod before you will move on this, fine; wait two years. Meanwhile, there's an energy revolution starting, and I like being on the front end of things -- the bleeding edge -- not the tail .
In the future, when people are giving PowerPoint presentations about the failures of mainstream academia, I predict that Academia's excoriation of cold fusion for two decades will be seen as an even larger failure and oversight than their 4 year lag time on human flight .
And Steven Krivit -- one of the key go-to guys for cold fusion (he doesn't call it that) -- being a primary opponent, actually accusing Rossi of "fraud", will be another sad commentary on our day. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Krivit ends up being shown to be mind controlled in the least (10% probability), and possibly even knowingly on the payroll of vested interests (2% probability), with a mission to discredit Rossi. But we can't make that kind of accusation without evidence, and I don't know of any yet .
This much I can say. When I talked to Mat Lewans of NyTeknik and Robert Svensson of AP separately about Krivit's hit piece on October 28, which mentioned them in a negative light, they both shook their heads and said something about being misrepresented. I found them both to be plenty cautious and scientific in their thinking and approach. Lewans was running calculations even as Rossi was reading the report Friday night. (I show him doing that in the video footage I recorded.)
My personal experience through phone and email with Steven Krivit is that he is an extremely difficult person to get along with. Cantankerous. Doesn't even try to be friendly. That tells me that today's hit piece is most likely just a function of a bad personality acting out (85% probability). That leaves 1% probability that Krivit is actually right, and a margin of 2% for other scenarios. I could be wrong. I'm certainly human .
Commentary by Hank Mills
There is zero doubt in my mind that the E-Cat (Energy Catalyzer) technology produces large amounts of excess energy via novel nuclear processes that can best be described by the term "cold fusion." For anyone to claim that Andrea Rossi is perpetuating a scam or hoax, is simply irrational at best, in my opinion. At worst, it indicates such individuals may have a specific agenda to try and falsely discredit the technology.
Over the past year, Andrea Rossi has performed around a dozen tests of the E-Cat, in which he allowed independent experts (scientists and engineers) to participate. All of these tests showed clear evidence of large amounts of excess energy. The tests that incorporated the E-Cat running in a self-sustaining mode utilizing near zero input (except the power used to operate the pumps, fans, and radio frequency generator?), especially make it clear that the technology can produce massive amounts of anomalous output, in the form of heat.
The case can be made that many of the tests of the E-Cat could have been performed in a better or more detailed way. By utilizing real-time electronic data collection to record all data from the instrumentation used, placing thermocouples in additional locations, the use of a "control" run, and taking certain other measures the results from many tests could have been much more precise. However, such precision and advanced methods of testing have not been required to prove the technology works as claimed. The massive amounts of heat produced by the E-Cat makes such precision testing unnecessary, even if such modern methods would have been extremely desirable.
Some of the evidence we have that the technology works as claims is simply irrefutable beyond measure. The recent test of the one megawatt plant showed operation in a self sustaining mode for five and a half hours. During this period of self sustaining operation, the temperature of the steam produced did not drop until the plant was shut down, and the test was ended. At times the temperature increased modestly. This would be impossible, unless a novel cold fusion reaction was indeed taking place -- producing huge amounts of excess energy. To be blunt, there is no way the reactor could have been producing hundreds of kilowatts of output in self sustain mode, unless something truly spectacular was taking place inside of it .
Of course some skeptics will scream that the huge amount of output produced is only due to the "thermal inertia" of the system. According to this ridiculous theory, the input energy originally supplied to the system is stored in the materials that compose the reactor, and is then released when the input energy is cut off (when the system goes into self-sustain). This is an insane argument, because the materials used to build the modules have too low of a specific heat (or heat storing capacity) to store that much energy. Also, it ignores the fact that a system cannot simply choose to store energy for a period of time (while transferring no heat to the water being pumped through the system), and then start releasing the stored heat ONLY when the input power is cut off.
Let's consider another important point. Any input power used -- along with the heat energy from nuclear reactions -- is continually being removed from the materials that compose the modules, from the moment the resistors are turned on. The stored energy the hardcore skeptics claim powers the system during self sustain mode, simply could not be there! Both because the materials used cannot store that much energy, and the input energy has continually been leaving the system as heat. Their false argument is not valid, unless they want to claim the law of thermodynamics is being broken!
Andrea Rossi knows the technology works, because he has built and tested hundreds, if not thousands of reactors. He has allowed third parties to make tests of his systems, that the general public is not aware of at this time. Although there may occasionally be technical problems with a test (such as resistors breaking or leaking gaskets), the years of experience he has accumulated and the results achieved prove the validity of the technology beyond any doubt.
- If the technology did not work, why would he have sold his stake in Leonardo Technologies Inc., properties in Italy, and eventually his home in Florida to finance his work.
- If the technology did not work, Defkalion and the very credible board of directors would not be so eager to renew their relationship with Rossi .
- If the technology did not work, Rossi's competitors (who are working on inferior versions of Ni-H cold fusion reactors that do not produce practical amounts of output) would be continually attacking him, writing obviously false articles about the technology, and trying to discredit him. It seems obvious to me, that they are extremely jealous of how much energy the E-Cat can produce .
- If the technology did not work, NASA would not be involved with nickel-hydrogen cold fusion research .
- If the technology did not work, his systems would not be able to be producing (for example in this most recent test) hundreds of kilowatts of output with almost zero input -- for several hours -- while cooling water is running through them! This is impossible .
The E-Cat technology is the real deal. No reasonable person who has been keeping up with the events of this year can say otherwise, unless they have an agenda. I will of course state that the technology is not perfect yet, and can use additional R and D. For example, Rossi cannot always control the reactions that are produced. In fact, in the most recent test, he had to REDUCE the output each module could produce, because the reactor core temperatures were getting too high! If he had run the modules at full throttle, even more energy would have been produced. The consequence might have been that the nickel powder could have melted in one or more reactors, and the modules could have been permanently "dead" afterwards -- until the reactor cores were replaced .
One idea that has been floated around by cynics is that Rossi is a fraudster trying to make money by lying about his technology. The simple truth is that scammers and con-artists spend other people's money, and don't touch their own. Rossi is the opposite, in that he has continually turned down proposed business deals and even donations, because he does not want to, "play with the bones of others." This latest test cost him a large amount of money to conduct, and to pay for it he had to sell his home. A con man would not be making such sacrifices .
I'm convinced the E-Cat technology is legitimate, and this recent test is absolute proof. I hope there will be more detailed information about the test released, because it will be very useful in determining exactly how much energy was produced. It would help those interested in the technology produce lots of fancy graphs and charts showing how much energy was produced. But it's really not necessary, because the information already revealed shows the output was huge, constant, and continued unceasingly for five and a half hours .
Cold fusion is here, and it's called the E-Cat.
P.S.: I have also noticed that one of Rossi's detractors has been pushing one particular theory for many years, the Widom Larsen theory. This theory tries to deny that a cold "fusion" process is taking place, by claiming that only beta decay is occurring. I have noticed this particular individual attacks those who criticizes Widom Larsen theory, and heaps praise on those who support it. I also noticed that his attacks on Rossi increased dramatically, not long after Rossi stated his technology has nothing to do with Widom Larsen theory. I think this shows an agenda, rather than brainwashing. [See our May 31 coverage about Widom-Larsen theory: Cold Fusion #1 Claims NASA Chief]
It seems to me, the whole push -- especially by certain individuals who are critical of Rossi -- to support Widom Larsen theory is a ploy by the so called, "powers that be" to put a better "spin" on the reality of cold fusion. If the general population of the world was to suddenly realize that due to a combination of extreme skepticism, arrogance, and greed a energy panacea was pushed to the side, there could be major political ramifications. Therefore, by pushing a theory that denies there is any "fusion" in "cold fusion", they can better control how the public reacts when the truth is revealed.
From their point of view, they would rather try to suppress and discredit a practical cold fusion technology like the E-Cat, and replace it with more primitive versions of the technology. By supporting those individuals who have produced results no where near what Rossi has, they can insure that the introduction of "not-fusion", will be slow, and controlled manner. Most importantly, the public will not be as likely to fully "wake up" about what *really* happened. They don't want the "mundanes" to know they are responsible for twenty years of environmental destruction, the current energy crisis, and massive human suffering -- which all could have been reduced if cold fusion technology had been taken seriously twenty years ago .
Source: FrigidFlamma
Full Disclosure:
I am seeking a business relationship with Andrea Rossi. My trip was sponsored by Farlie Paynter of Canada, as well as by Mike Spitzauer, CEO of Green Power Inc (GPI), the Waste-to-Diesel Fuel company in Pasco, Washington.
http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/coldfusion/index?tab=articles
http://pesn.com/2011/10/30/9501941_Rebuttal_to_Krivits_Accusation_that_Andrea_Rossi_is_a_Fraudster/
The Cold Fusion Ping List
http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/coldfusion/index?tab=articles
http://pesn.com/2011/10/30/9501941_Rebuttal_to_Krivits_Accusation_that_Andrea_Rossi_is_a_Fraudster/
The priest speaketh.
I guess exposing all the warning signs of fraud is an agenda.
How about less talk, more do? Every time I’ve done something that hasn’t been done before (water into wine, iPod, etc.) I make it work FIRST and THEN I show it to all my friends.
I wish this potentially world-changing technology the absolute best of luck but I’m just saying these people sound like nutjobs to me....
I have been following the e-cat since it first popped up on the radar here and elsewhere. Through the years I have held an interest in over unity generators and other such “alternative energy systems”.
What to make of e-cat? I want it to work. Heck, who wouldn’t? Is it a scam? Sure, it could be a great scam. Could Rossi be mistaken, and the “machine” not actually doing what he claims is doing? Certainly.
But, I think of Edison and the Wright Brothers who tinkered and tinkered with ideas and materials until they achieved the desired results. These were inventors and maybe Rossi is an inventor too.
One can invent something and not know exactly “how” it works, only that it does.
I hope to see an e-cat on every corner before I pass on. It would be nice to take advantage of a new power source. Think how liberating it could be for Third World Countries, to have a relatively inexpensive power source. Think of the industry that it could power. I think we are on the verge of something and if it isn’t Rossi, then it will be someone just like him. Someone who will market the product before statists regulate it to death. Because the statists do not want man to be free—it makes their job all that harder.
So, I hope Rossi can pull it off, I really do.
I’ve never seen any motive for Rossi to lie or fake data. He’ll be disgraced and never make any money off of ECAT if it’s proven that he’s a fraud, so why risk it. Global Warming - now that was a fraud! Because there were millions of dollars in research grants at stake, and those perpetrating the fraud had everything to gain by doing so.
I’m content to let Rossi and his customer test the ECAT and in the end, we will all know the truth. Why should anyone rush to point fingers or make unprovable accusations now?
“Im content to let Rossi and his customer test the ECAT and in the end, we will all know the truth. Why should anyone rush to point fingers or make unprovable accusations now?”
Okay, those are good points. My question, speaking as a dumkopf, is this: if he has it and it works, where is it? Why doesn’t he just show everybody and shut the critics up?
Sterling Allen runs a loony web site dedicated to zero point energy. Not the best spokesman for Rossi IMHO.
On Jan. 20, 2011, when I had an open mind and assumed the best of Rossi, he wrote to me, You help me now; I will help you forever. He offered to fly me over to Italy, and I told him that was wrong, I could not accept his offer. He then offered to drive four hours round-trip to pick me up at Milan airport, and I told him no, Ill take the train down to Bologna. Eventually, I agreed to let him buy me a sandwich and pay for a taxi ride back to my hotel.At the very least, Rossi's fans are being compensated with expenses paid trips to Italy.
“I think they are premature to enter into territorial licensing. They first need to demonstrate a stable device in which the output power is able to stably keep the device operating, while providing stable output power or better yet, governable output power to respond to the load requirements, up to a certain maximum amount as specified by the engineering. Yes, all that requires money to characterize and optimize, but the money should not come from license sales, it should come from investment in which the risks are understood; not from license contracts with expectations of product delivery.”
But that wasn't written about the E-Cat, rather about some “free energy” machine called an “angular force generator” back in May 3, 2010.
Still Rossi said he will be hiring in the U.S. so maybe Alan will be able to “establish a business relationship” yet.
http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2011/10/30/noble-aspirations-are-not-enough/
Here are a couple other links to Krivit articles with more information:
http://newenergytimes.com/v2/news/2011/37/3742appendix37.shtml
We'll just ignore the generator that remained hooked up to the eCat for the test... And I'm not convinced by the rhetorical questions about why Rossi would risk his reputation on being found out as a fraud. Con men never worry about reputations; they just care about getting their hands on your money!
Carbon dioxide is the greatest culprit. It is odorless and invisible; for the most part, it does its damage without our awareness. Carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gasses collect in the upper part of the Earth's atmosphere and remain trapped there. When solar radiation passes through the Earth's atmosphere, most of this radiation is absorbed by the earth's surface. However, some of the solar radiation is reflected back to the atmosphere. Odinarily, part of this radiation would continue onward to outer space, and part would be reflected back to earth.The guy was way behind the curve on CO2 in 2004. I'm not convinced of his expertise on something so non-mainstream as low energy nuclear reactions.
However, as a blanket of green house gasses accumulates in the upper atmosphere, it absorbs the wavelengths of reflected radiation and converts it into thermal energy. The gasses remains [sic] trapped, upsetting the delicate energy balance as the Earth makes its yearly journey around the sun, and contributing to an increase in global temperature worldwide.
What warning signs?
Did you read the article?
Part of that is because I am privy to some confidential information about an independent validation by a very credible institution that starts with an N .Oh, goodie! More "secret" information that is supposed to prove to everyone that this is real.
I would not entirely rule out Steve's accusations of fraud; but I personally find that extremely unlikely. I give it a 1% probability just because I have fooled before by people I thought were genuine but who turned out to be scammers.So, he's been successfully conned before, but this time it's different.
I don't have a problem with Rossi's experience with the Petrol Dragon. He was set up by the Italian Mafia because he wouldn't let them get involved in his company. They were behind all of that harassment he received, and from which he was exonerated. I would imagine there is something similar behind the gold trafficking situation as well .A link to any exonerating evidence would be nice. Rossi's convictions and prison time are waved away with the author "imagining" that there must be exonerating evidence, although he apparently doesn't know of any.
My personal experience through phone and email with Steven Krivit is that he is an extremely difficult person to get along with. Cantankerous. Doesn't even try to be friendly. That tells me that today's hit piece is most likely just a function of a bad personality acting out (85% probability). That leaves 1% probability that Krivit is actually right, and a margin of 2% for other scenarios. I could be wrong. I'm certainly human .So, we're supposed to ignore Rossi's well-documented personality problems, but it's OK to use the author's claim of Krivit having personality issues as an attack against him.
The recent test of the one megawatt plant showed operation in a self sustaining mode for five and a half hours.So says Rossi. We don't have any actual evidence of this. All we have is Rossi's claim, and his claim that his "secret company" was satisfied with the test.
Andrea Rossi knows the technology works,So says Rossi. He claims to have heated his factory for six months on a single "fueling", but he hasn't been able (or willing) to publicly demonstrate the system working for more than a few hours.
If the technology did not work, why would he have sold his stake in Leonardo Technologies Inc., properties in Italy, and eventually his home in Florida to finance his work.Some cynics have suggested that he's liquidating any assets that could be traced back to him.
If the technology did not work, Defkalion and the very credible board of directors would not be so eager to renew their relationship with Rossi .Thanks for telling us that they are "very credible". From everything I've read, it appears that Defkalion came into existence the same month that Rossi went public with his E-Cat. Their website (http://defkalion-energy.com/) doesn't seem to have any actual information about the company. I would be fascinated to know who theses "very credible" board of directors actually are.
It seems obvious to me, that they are extremely jealous of how much energy the E-Cat can produce .I guess it's impossible that the critics are critical because they see all the signs of a scam being perpetrated. And, of course, the Mafia would never interfere with someone who might be muscling in on their business (which is not cold fusion research).
I am seeking a business relationship with Andrea Rossi.This is the same guy who admits at the beginning of the article that he has been successfully conned before. I guess some things never change.
As the author pointed out, Rossi has sunk large amounts of his own money into this invention, including selling his home to pay for demonstrations and tests, which Rossi has funded himself.
I agree with the author that a con man uses other people’s money. He doesn’t use up his own savings and sell his own home to finance a scam.
Doesn’t mean there can’t be some sloppiness or even deception in the process. But an outright scam — i.e, absolutely no there there — seems unlikely at this point.
All that would do is help his competitors (another point which proves this is unlikely to be a scam — other people are frantically trying to soak up any details they can from Rossi’s project to help them in their own work on LENR).
For this technology to go forward, it needs to be funded for R & D and so on. The best way to do that is to preserve its profit potential for future customers, who no doubt will want to preserve the reactor’s patents as well as anything about the process that can be labels proprietary.
Seems to me that can only be done by limiting the public disclosures to those necessary to attract R&D funding and venture capital.
Now that’s a very nice analysis.
What, in your view, would be the goal of Rossi’s scam?
Who is he trying to scam and what’s in it for him?
Do you "honestly" think that there weren't power meters hooked up to that generator?? There have been in EVERY OTHER test.
Actually, using the generator is perfectly understandable. The 1MW E-Cat is designed and assembled to be run from a single power input. Rossi had two choices, have the landlord of his facility install a high-power link to the grid (which would be of no further use after the test), OR, rent a portable generator of appropriate size and quality, hook it up, do the test, and drive it away afterwards. Precisely what a good engineer would do.
The generator runs throughout the test, and at reduced load during the "self-sustaining" phase when the individual E-Cat heaters are turned off in order to run the pumps circulating the coolant, and the other relevant equipment (instrumentation, controllers, etc.)
I would hope that more data from the test will be released, but we'll simply have to "wait and see".
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