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Posted on 08/01/2011 7:01:31 AM PDT by Liberty1970
Beware the Unveiling of the 1 MW Reactor in October
For months those of us watching the E-Cat story unfold have been eagerly looking forward to the last week in October and the unveiling of the first 1 megawatt thermal reactor at Defkalion's factory in Greece. Andrea Rossi has steadfastly refused to provide more public evidence for the reality of the E-cat, pointing instead to the 1 MW reactor operation as the proof everyone should be waiting for.
Skeptics and believers alike have cited this date as well, indicating that we will all know by the end of October whether the world has changed and the Energy Catalyzer is for real.
Or will we?
Rossi, in recent communications, has indicated that some 'elite' American scientists will be at the unveiling of the 1 MW reactor, as well as physicists Dr. Brian Josephson (Nobel laureate), Drs. Kullander and Essen of Sweden, and Dr. Levi. Once concern I have here is that all those named have previously given public statements of support for the E-cat. Not that I expect Rossi to invite his enemies or competitors, but it would be nice to know there are some scientists coming who are not part of Rossi's cheerleading squad, as it were.
Moreover, this event simply cannot be a repeat of the frustrating public demonstrations given earlier this year, which provide evidence but not proof of the operation of the E-Cat. I've frequently heard people comment that you 'can't fake a 1 MW reactor' as if that scale of operation simply can't be performed with hidden, mundane, power generation.
Hogwash. Given the scope of this whole story and the hundreds of millions of dollars already on the table, it would be a simple thing to go to the trouble of pumping 1 MW of electricity into the array of 330 E-Cats with hidden power lines and convert it to thermal energy using resistance heaters embedded in the false E-Cat devices. (I don't think batteries or other on-board power generation would be sufficient for this stage of the scam, if scam it is.)
In recent weeks we've been hearing about how Defkalion is asking for $40 million euros for exclusive manufacturing rights in each country from franchise purchasers. This strikes me as bizarre. Why should I pay as much to supply Luxembourg or Albania as someone else pays for the U.S. or Japan? Why not auction off the franchises to the highest bidder once proof has been established? (That's probably a naive way to go about it too, but strikes me as better than one flat price as I've currently heard.)
The $40 million price tag raises a red flag for me. I hope I'm wrong, but I wonder how many people are willing to take the risk and hand over that kind of money now, or will jump to do so as soon as they see the 1 MW reactor running in October. If this is a scam, that's where the big money is.
So that's my fear - that the 1 MW reactor will turn out to be a fake, but one that pulls in hundreds of millions of euros in the first few weeks before things start to really fall apart as promised shipments of E-cats to independent sources (outside of Rossi's control at last) fail to materialize. My message to Rossi and the folks at Defkalion is: you've still got more than two months. Use it to plan out how you intend to PROVE to us, your customer base and the world at large, that the E-cat is real.
Don't have the E-cat array hidden or embedded in conrete - have it up in as accessible a configuration as possible. Every hose, every power line, anything that could carry a wire should be accessible for inspection and independent metering as applicable. Let the scientists (including some heretofore uncommitted ones) and journals have full access to the setup (as much as safety allows). Have some single E-cats also set up, operational and available for inspection and metering. Let the visitors bring their own equipment for inspection and metering. I understand you need to keep some trade secrets, but find ways to let independent researchers prove beyond any reasonable doubt that the E-cat is doing what you say it is doing, without any hidden power sources.
Engage the honest skeptics now to understand what we'd like to see, what we need to see, to really satisfy everyone. Please.
Ten years ago, I tried to get into the game. He turned me down. I don’t believe the man is a liar. I do think it is comical that all these assistant professors believe that he owes them a detailed explanation though.
“Ten years ago, I tried to get into the game. He turned me down. I don’t believe the man is a liar. “
A fool and his money...
A sucker is born every...
You sure are pumping this crap day in and day out, and when there is no press release you make your own. Get a life, wait for real news, and stop being this guy’s sychophant.
We note a very important fact that both Rb and R do not depend on the Gamow factor in contrast to the conventional theory for nuclei fusion in free space. This is consistent with the conjecture noted by Dirac [16] and used by Bogolubov [21] that boson creation and annihilation operators can be treated simply as numbers when the ground state occupation number is large. This implies that for large N each charged boson behaves as an independent particle in a common average background potential and the Coulomb interaction between two charged bosons is suppressed. Quoting Kim et. al. 2003
This is a neat bit of circular reasoning. He assumes that the "bosons" are non-interacting and then concludes that their is no coulomb interaction between them, thus suppressing the Gamov factor in the fusion cross-section, which factor is the whole reason why cold-fusion cannot work. IOW this paper simply assumes away the coulomb barrier that makes cold-fusion impossible.
But of course you realized all of that when you read these papers, leading you to propose your weak-interaction manipulation method instead.
Well then the poor guy is screwed because relying on trade secrecy for something that is easily discoverable once you have the hardware is no protection at all. At least with a patent you can protect some of your rights in the Western world.
It is sounding more and more like a Madoff scheme. Has he been paying dividends to the early investors?
Spelling error. It should read "loon."
Sounds like this guy is going whole hog. He wants the big investors, the whales, not some small time sub-billion guys.
Wouldn't it be easy to verify it was a fake by the amount of power it was drawing off the grid?
BAM! You nailed it. I’ve grown tired of the wailing and whining from the ‘scientific community’ like a bunch of 16 year old drama queen cheerleaders. They’re po’d because Rossi won’t let them in on the game to their satisfaction, as if these people are the High Priesthood to judge all that is good and scientific.
This is a private deal with private investors. If it’s a scam then it’s a scam. We will know soon enough. And if there are fools that will invest in this without verification and get taken - that’s their stupidity.
From a business angle, events will take care of themselves. I’m not getting worked up about it.
Just put peroxide in the cooling fluid. It will make heat, and no hidden wires or grid draw.
I post a thread warning "beware" and urging greater caution regarding Rossi's E-cat claims and you call me a sycophant? I do not think that word means what you think it means.
Feel free not to read a thread if the thread doesn't interest you. I don't go around to all the threads that I find uninteresting or disagreeable and carp about them.
Sure, if you know what meter to read. :-)
Let me think... my understanding is that a home needs ~4 kilowatts, give or take. So 1 MW draw would be equivalent to the power requirements for a couple hundred houses. Or perhaps equivalent to a middling-sized industrial facility. Drawing that amount of power without anyone noticing might be difficult but not impossible. Can anyone with experience in this area comment on that?
>>A fool and his money...
A sucker is born every...<<
I must be doing fine then because my net worth has increased substantially in the past ten years.
For a moment, only a moment, accept that his E-Cat is a viable product. Would it have been a good business deal to get in for $200K rather than $40M? That’s what I was attempting to do ten years ago.
Remember that this is not electrical power that is being produced, but rather simple heat. To create 1 megawatt of heat requires about 37 gallons of propane per hour.
Thousand gallon tanks of propane are not unusual. Hidden natural gas pipes are not that difficult to create. As only heat is required, there are many ways to deliver it if the demonstration is not easily inspected from all sides.
Actually, he can control the franchises, and manufacture the item so it is sealed, and so it is kept under control of the franchisees. Then he only has to trust the franchisees, and can write huge monetary penalties into the contracts for disclosure.
FOod companies manage to hide their trade secrets of things like what is in secret sauce or the formulas for drinks, even though all of us have a Coke in the frig, and the products are manufactured all over the world.
Not saying that this explains anything in this case, just that in theory if you have an idea that is extremely obvious, and maybe even DONE already by someone else who just didn’t figure out it’s value, you can make a living using trade secrets and hiding the particulars.
How long do you think he would still be breathing unassisted if he accepted 40M from someone for a scam? Think he would make it for an entire week?
A great many scams have been pulled in the world involving losses far greater than 40M, with the perpetrators going unpunished.
It depends on what sort of organization the perpetrator has to protect them. If it is a version of the Russian mafia, I am pretty sure they could get away with it. It is also possible to protect yourself to an extent by careful selection of the victims. If you make sure the victims are vulnerable to intimidation themselves, it could work. Some victims will not wish to be identified.
There are places in the world where it is nearly impossible to reach someone with either legal or extra-legal force.
The fact that Mr. Rossi would not take $200,000 from you certainly is interesting. It says to me that there is no reason to be very excited about it, because I have no way to act on it if I knew it was valid.
I hope that the device produces energy as advertised. We should know by the end of the year. If there are no independently owned working models by that time, We can be pretty certain that it is a scam.
All this is predicated on the E-Cat being a real honest new tech device and not a scam. If it’s for real, he has made good decision considering the way this ‘global economy’ works. If it’s a scam, then it won’t much matter. And a patent is only good for a time. Plus, if you publish your idea, which you have to to get a patent, all someone else has to do is tinker and change a few things to ‘improve’ the design and they now have a patent, too. He/they are trying to get as much as they can before the system details are made known to the public, and if that is so, then I can’t fault them for that..................
If his invention does work, I'll bet this picture will rapidly change.
What impressed me about him is that he wasn't interested in outside investors, at all. Never asked to read the restrictions on my offer, just a polite, "No, thank you."
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