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Posted on 07/30/2011 1:44:23 PM PDT by Liberty1970
Brian Josephson, the Nobel Prize-winning physicist, asked a question on Andrea Rossi’s blog about the quality of the 1MW demonstration in October. He has been a defender of true research in the LENR field, frequently challenging debunkers to back up their objections with logic instead of repeating the same one-sided attacks so often a signature of pseudosceptics. In answer, Rossi invited him to the test. I am assuming that the question did come from Josephson but there is no doubt that the invite is real:
Brian Josephson July 30th, 2011 at 4:17 AM
October demo Andrea,
You’ve said the 1MW E-cat due in October will be the real test, but in what way will it be more convincing than the ones done so far? Will it be done in such a way that people are sure about the amount of water/steam coming out of the reactor, and how dry the steam is (which affects the heat content)?
Andrea Rossi July 30th, 2011 at 6:11 AM
Dear Prof. Brian Josephson (Nobel Prize), First of all, thank you for your very important attention. Please read very carefully what I am writing to you: 1-The 1 MW plant that we will start up in October will be tested, on behalf of our Customer, by very, very high level world class scientists. You are in the list, so please, if you want and you can, take free the last week of October. 2- The test will be witnessed by several very, very high level world class scientific journalists 3- The E-Cats we are working with now in our factories, which will be the modules of the 1 MW plant, are producing perfectly dry steam, mostly without energy input, as you will see yourself if you will honour us with your presence. Very Warm Regards, Andrea Rossi
Done properly (and it will have to be), this public launch should provide enough proof for potential customers. At that point, and not before (no matter who calls for it) we will have some certainty about what happens next. If the launch is also attended by senior science correspondents, this is also the time we should see the story break – one way or another, depending on results. As so many people have said before, proving such a beast will not be hard and the time for preparation should help arm those like Brian Josephson (assuming he accepts) to be ready to give us a definitive ‘yes’ or ‘no’.
Tell it to Peter Hagelstein. His track record indicates he has sufficient brain cells to understand things, and he disagrees with you.
” they should use those credentials for the good of other freepers and do the footwork necessary to prove their case,”
OK. Contact Rossi and tell him to turn over his engineering specifications for the device under NDA and I’ll be glad to. I am a qualified research scientist and would be happy to review his design...but I am sure he wouldn’t be happy for me to.
Which is exactly why a dimwitted individual such as yourself cannot begin to understand what a pile of hogwash those papers are.
***Then we both agree, it should be a simple matter to counter the scientific arguments in those papers. And the reason why you aren’t doing it is... you’re lazy? Not enough time? Not really smart enough to do it? Then why don’t those putrid excuses apply to piling invective on other freepers?
In physics you don’t make up for quality by piling up [excrement] until spontaneous combustion burns up the whole pile of crap.
***Here you again demonstrate that you lack critical thinking skills. The sentence says nothing useful, is only really good for creating invective. You’re good at creating invective but you can’t seem to draw from your own PhD level nuclear physics training to counter these theories. It’s enough to question your credentials, as far as I can tell.
I don’t have to publish anything.
***You probably don’t know how, judging on your posting behavior.
I just have to point out, as I have already, that Sinha’s theory violates the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.
***He mentions that in his paper. He claims it is modified by the fact that the atom is stuck inside a lattice, and you claim that it is not modified by anything. Based upon my interactions with you, I’m inclined to think that he knows what he’s talking about and you do not.
The onus then shifts to Sinha either to show that I was in error (though he admits this problem)
***The onus does not shift until you publish your criticism, mr. PhD.
or to demonstrate theoretically and experimentally that the HUP does not always hold, which he has not done, nor has anyone else.
***And when I get round to pointing out that experimentally, there are 14000 replications of the Pons Fleishmann effect, you go silent. There is very little reason for lurking freepers to listen to you unless you use your training and publish what you have. I doubt you’ll do that, you’re too lazy and too much of a wimp; you’ll just stay here on an anonymous forum and be a sniper.
Now, as for personal responsibility, you are the one claiming the extraordinary result that this stuff works.
***I’m claiming the ordinary result that 14000 times, the effect has been replicated. When I ask you if you accept that as a fact, you go silent. That’s extraordinary unscientific behavior for a scientist.
it is incumbant upon you to demonstrate it.
***I see why you prefer not to publish. Your critical thinking skills are just absent. It is not incumbent on me to publish anything because I don’t claim to be an authority in this field, but you do.
Please, go ahead and prove us all wrong.
***I would be happy to, if I had access to the level of resources that you do.
Build your cold-fusion microwave or self-propelled vehicle and cook my steak or drive me around the block and I will be a believer.
***Again your lack of critical thinking skills shows itself. How are we supposed to take your word that you’re a PhD holder if you can’t even refrain from freshman level straw argumentation? Everyone knows that the state of LENR is not yet at the point that you can put it in a car, but you extend that requirement to LENR just so you can ridicule it. Where are our hot-fusion cars? Why do you raise the bar for cold fusion but not for hot fusion?
But you have not and cannot nor can any of the rest of your assorted crowd of cheats, frauds and
***They are in the process of demonstrating the validity of LENR. If you’re so smart and capable, then you should be able to point out where it’s a fraud, but we don’t see you doing that. It leads one to believe you’re either a liar or incapable, yourself.
unschooled lowlifes.
***oh, so then you’re an elitist
Then why do you not trust the people who have investigated his device?
he should go put his money in it then, why does he feel the need to comment.
It doesn’t make any sense in the narrative they are trying to push.
Name one that’s received this amount of coverage.
***Whatever is the latest cool development. It gets published in mainstream media, far more than what gets published for Ecat.
Six month updates would be more than enough.
***If you don’t like the articles, don’t read them. I see all kinds of stupid articles, like about Lindsay Lohan or Michael Jackson or whatever, that I won’t read.
Just look at the sidebar right now
Cops nab bizarre Prospect Park poachers (Brooklyn, NY)
Tea party picnic: Turnout increased at second annual rally in the park (SLIDESHOW)
Sen. Rubio: “Save the Whole House or It Will All Burn Down”
Just received a visit from the ZOT
Jumping the Gun With the Racist Card
Drought-Hit Kenya Develops a Taste for Camel
Feds: Man busted at OIA swallowed almost a kilo of cocaine
Washington Debt Limit Impasse Boon for Pizza Deliveries
Rampaging Philadelphia youth mob injures two, four in custody
Conyers on Jobs: “We’ve Had It.” Lays Out Obama, Calls for Protest at White House
Freep Alert for Your Area: Wednesday Birthday house meeting (Wasserman-Schultz)
McCotter calls for a truce between Republicans, Tea Party
Blacklight has been going for 20 years, attracted over $60 million,
***And Rossi’s been going for about a year, attracted 6-7X as much money, has demonstrated it to various scientists and will open a plant maybe in October. Mills is a lightweight compared to Rossi, whether this is fraud or real.
and a hydrino hasn’t produced one trillionth the electricity found in a AAA battery.
***And you see updates about Mills about once every 6 months. What is your problem?
That one Freeper wasn't the only person trying to invest with Rossi. I've seen mention of Rossi turning down investment capital in lots of articles.
If you can believe what's been reported online, then it lends some degree of credibility to the man. A real con man wouldn't publicize something like this, if he intended to rip off unwary investors. He's got far too many people watching his every move.
Personally, I'm just keeping an open mind about the E-cat. I'm cautiously hopeful that it's real, but I won't be personally crushed if it winds up being something other than what he's claimed.
Kevmo, Defkalion is wholly controlled by Rossi and none of Defkalion’s financials are public.
***But there are a bunch more players, all of whom are complicit if this is a scam. And they claim to get better results than Rossi, so they are even worse if they’re in on the scam. What about all the others who have been given demonstrations? They wouldn’t hand over 400M Euros without some top notch scientists & engineers checking it out. There’s a reason why they opened their pocket books.
You know this is a scam,
***Prove it
How to Prove that the Rossi/Focardi eCAT LENR is Real
(or Fake)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2730401/posts
Sunday, June 05, 2011 7:52:15 PM · by Kevmo · 52 replies
LENR.QUMBO.com ^ | April 6, 2011 | Alan Fletcher
I have given you so much information that you couldn’t possible not still be fooled with this con after all of this.
***I’ve given you so much information that you couldn’t possibly think that LENR is a complete scam.
So why do you keep pushing this?
***Because I’m fascinated. And I would love to find a way to cash in on this upcoming gold rush when it turns out to be true.
Are you Rossi?
***no
Are you getting a pay off?
***Not enough of one. I’d love to take your money in a bet against this technology at Intrade.
The End of Snide Remarks Against Cold Fusion
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2265914/posts
Friday, June 05, 2009 5:56:08 PM · by Kevmo · 95 replies · 1,770+ views
Free Republic, Gravitronics.net and Intrade ^ | 6/5/09 | kevmo, et al
How I Made Money from Cold Fusion
Saturday, January 23, 2010 12:28:49 PM · by Kevmo · 28 replies · 1,013+ views
Exclusive Article for Free Republic | 1/23/10 | Kevmo
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2435697/posts
“Then why do you not trust the people who have investigated his device?”
You sound like someone that saw a “Magic” show and swears the elephant really did disappear, or the poor Indian that just knows the Medicine Man took the demon spirits from his daughter so she will live. Anyone with an ounce of scientific education at all understands that his little box is nothing but a sham, and anyone with an ounce of common sense has their BS detectors on high. As other posters have put it, if he really could generate that kind of energy, even with his claims that he cannot seem to control the feedback loop, knows that he could enlist all kinds of help and still make billions. I have never seen anyone refuse such help in all my years watching more inventions than I can possibly remember come to market. His “caution” for his IP is beyond practical and passed into scam territory long ago. There are protections for intellectual property that would allow him protections to his inventions. He has enough of a background to know this, yet, he claims he must keep everything a secret.
Is it up to me to disprove perpetual motion?
***Has perpetual motion been replicated 14,000 times like LENR has?
Rossi hasn't claimed to have invented a perpetual motion machine. If you don't already know that, then you're not qualified to challenge him.
If you do know that (and I think you do) you're just slandering the man, in an attempt to dodge. If you're going to accuse him of selling snake oil, then you need to prove it.
Otherwise, sit back and watch events unfold like the rest of us.
“Rossi’s degree is from a diploma mill in California “
A CLOSED Diploma mill:
State Orders Closure of Area School
January 4, 1996 | JOHN CHANDLER, TIMES STAFF WRITER
Capping an 18-month legal fight, state regulators have ordered the closure of Glendale-based Kensington University for awarding degrees without proper academic standards and other violations.
“There are protections for intellectual property that would allow him protections to his inventions.” Um, China puts that assertion into the dust bin. Nothing is your intellectual property to a nation which will steal your ideas for their own profit.
“If you’re going to accuse him of selling snake oil, then you need to prove it.”
How does one go about proving someone they cannot meet o perform a review of their product prove they are selling snake oil? Oh, wait, that IS proving their are selling snake oil.
“Um, China puts that assertion into the dust bin. Nothing is your intellectual property to a nation which will steal your ideas for their own profit.”
So, what you are saying is that no one, no where, can ever produce a product because of China? Right. Gotcha.
And what has been replicated 14,000 times? Probably fraud.
What you don’t get is that the burden of proof isn’t on me. And as long as this fraud is being spammed on FR I’m going to be here.
You sound like someone that saw a “Magic” show and swears the elephant really did disappear, or the poor Indian that just knows the Medicine Man took the demon spirits from his daughter so she will live.
***And you sound like a perpetual naysayer, stuck on stupid.
Anyone with an ounce of scientific education at all understands that his little box is nothing but a sham,
***So you’re saying Focardi isn’t scientific enough? Or the Nobel Laureate in the subject of this article? Or other scientists who have had a look?
and anyone with an ounce of common sense has their BS detectors on high.
***My BS detectors were on high 2 years ago. It’s incredibly difficult to get a LENR device to work, and it’s even harder to get it to work in Ni-H. But Rossi’s working with someone who’s published strong results in the Ni-H arena, and the more I see of how he operates, the less he appears to be scamming. For instance, when the head of NASA Langley said that he thought Rossi’s approach had the best chance to work, Rossi criticised him for thinking the Widom-Larson theory was the mechanism. A guy running a scam would take whatever NASA says and run with it.
As other posters have put it, if he really could generate that kind of energy, even with his claims that he cannot seem to control the feedback loop, knows that he could enlist all kinds of help and still make billions.
***He is in the process of doing exactly that.
I have never seen anyone refuse such help in all my years watching more inventions than I can possibly remember come to market.
*** I have. It happens all the time in Silicon Valley.
His “caution” for his IP is beyond practical and passed into scam territory long ago.
***Here you simply don’t know what you are talking about.
There are protections for intellectual property that would allow him protections to his inventions.
***You have a remarkable faith in the goodness of humans that I do not share. His technology will be targeted for stealing just like the Wright brothers’ was, and they spent years in court fighting against infringers, the most grievous of whom was the scientific leaders of the day who were at the Smithsonian.
He has enough of a background to know this, yet, he claims he must keep everything a secret.
***You are remarkably ill informed in this area of technology development.
Man, you must be Rossi....only that con artist would keep going like you in desperation.
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