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I thought this was interesting and wanted to see what other FReepers had to say about it.
1 posted on 01/19/2011 11:35:40 AM PST by kosciusko51
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To: kosciusko51; stainlessbanner

Find some cover. The lead’s about to fly.

}:-)4


2 posted on 01/19/2011 11:40:36 AM PST by Moose4 ("By all that you hold dear on this good Earth, I bid you stand, Men of the West!")
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To: kosciusko51

As a southerner, all I have to say is THE SOUTH IS GONNA RISE AGAIN. I was always taught, by my relatives, the War Between the States boiled down to states rights. I guess the Washington Post wants to makes southerners out to be liars, huh?


3 posted on 01/19/2011 11:40:56 AM PST by stansblugrassgrl (PRAISE THE LORD AND PASS THE AMMUNITION!!! YEEEEEHAW!)
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To: kosciusko51
The guy manages to work in a bit of Bush-bashing (maybe just to reassure the typical Washington Compost reader that he's a good guy)--"Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy."

He's a sociologist, not an historian.

5 posted on 01/19/2011 11:43:57 AM PST by Verginius Rufus
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To: kosciusko51
I thought this was interesting and wanted to see what other FReepers had to say about it.

I have read both "Sundown Towns" and "Lies My Teacher Told Me" written by James Loewen.

In short, he's an American-hating Marxist. That's all that needs be known. Distrust everything and anything written by the repulsive and insignificant homunculus:


6 posted on 01/19/2011 11:44:33 AM PST by re_nortex (DP...that's what I like about Texas...)
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To: kosciusko51

Contrary to the article, the PREFERRED name for the “Civil War” is actually “The War of Northern Agression”. I think is WAS over State’s rights, AND the hyysterical drumbeat of the New York Times in the late 1850’s for WAR over the tariff-free imports through the Port Of New Orleans, thus undercutting New York’s importance. Read the old papers on microfiche!


9 posted on 01/19/2011 11:46:52 AM PST by 2harddrive
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To: kosciusko51

The Socialists running Wall Street drove the South to secede.


12 posted on 01/19/2011 11:48:21 AM PST by Paladin2
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To: kosciusko51

I like the clever way the reporter ties slave holders to people who support the Bush tax cuts. (sigh)


13 posted on 01/19/2011 11:48:43 AM PST by MeganC (I'm allergic to tequila. When I drink it I break out in handcuffs.)
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To: kosciusko51

Despite some of the specific pot-shots the author takes at Bush, etc. It’s largely true; the five main points of the article are certainly valid.

Donning flame-resistant suit.


14 posted on 01/19/2011 11:48:45 AM PST by Strategerist
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To: kosciusko51

The whole thing with Lincoln going to war was to preserve the Union. The slavery issue was not a factor at the time.


17 posted on 01/19/2011 11:51:17 AM PST by ReverendJames (Only A Lawyer, A Painter, A Politician And The Media Can Change Black To White)
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To: kosciusko51
In 1860, many subsistence farmers aspired to become large slave-owners. So poor white Southerners supported slavery then, just as many low-income people support the extension of George W. Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy now.

Got that? Supporting tax cuts is like supporting slavery.

18 posted on 01/19/2011 11:52:26 AM PST by pogo101
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To: kosciusko51
Your right it was about States rights..
Slavery was indeed a sub issue.. but not the main issue..
Most all the southern people had never owned any slave or wanted to own one..
Most all of the soldiers were not slave owners..

People giving their lives (not so a few) could own slaves but that their State could be sovereign..
Also not all the southern soldiers agreed with slavery..

The Civil War was not about slavery.. but something more practical..
Progressive history re-writers have made the Civil War about slavery.. it wasn't..

Americans(YOU) have probably been brain washed..
Along with those that think America is a democracy..

Any democracy is a myth, it is a lie..
No democracy has ever been democratic..
Democracy is Mob Rule by mobsters.. always in every iteration..
Democracy is a lie.. that's why America is a Republic..
Democracy is a political disease that results in socialism.. as a symptom..

The democrat party is a diseased cabal.. a junta.. NOW..
Always has been from the beginning..

22 posted on 01/19/2011 11:55:56 AM PST by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole....)
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To: kosciusko51

“In fact, Confederates opposed states’ rights — that is, the right of Northern states not to support slavery”

You’re confusing the ramp up to secession with the cause of secession. Yes, Southerners supported the Dred Scott decision and wished for Washington to enforce human bondage across the land. They saw themselves as defending individual rights (not slaves’ rights, of course, but the rights of their owners) against states’ prerogatives.

However, nothing’s to say they dropped out because nationwide slavery was at stake. More likely, they figured those dirty, n****r-loving, radical Republicans would abolish the peculiar institution at home, in the South. That’s ultimately why they left.

Once the South had its own government, obviously, it could expand slavery westward. No doubt that was on their mind. But that doesn’t mean opposition to states’ rights caused secession. Fear that Washington would violate Dred Scott did.


24 posted on 01/19/2011 11:59:09 AM PST by Tublecane
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To: kosciusko51

The writer forgets to mention a few things that could have skewed his data.

1. Free blacks in the south
2. Free blacks who owned slaves in the south
3. Nearly all businesses hired immigrant labor (like the irish) instead of owning slaves for anything except agriculture. Why? - if it was cheaper to own slaves as the author suggests (ps - it wasn’t).
4. I seriously doubt the south had 75% of all American exports. The south was already in decline and the north was already largely industrialized by 1860.


25 posted on 01/19/2011 11:59:18 AM PST by 2banana (My common ground with terrorists - they want to die for islam and we want to kill them)
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To: kosciusko51
Well, are you expecting a rational response? What about the Neo Confederates on Fr makes you think you will get one?
Good article by the way.
27 posted on 01/19/2011 12:01:19 PM PST by IrishCatholic (No local Communist or Socialist Party Chapter? Join the Democrats, it's the same thing!)
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To: kosciusko51
South Postpones Rising Again For Yet Another Year


31 posted on 01/19/2011 12:02:56 PM PST by iowamark
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To: kosciusko51
Well the first two arguments have been thoroughly debunked previously on lrc.com. They are standard Lincoln cult pap. The third argument is a free floating argument supported by nothing but a back handed slap at George Bush (they can't resist). As for point 4, Lincoln's interest was in preserving the ability of the Union to enforce a protective tariff, which they could not do if the South seceded and adopted a revenue tariff. Lincoln was not interested in abolishing slavery. So point 4 is correct, though not for the reason given.

Number five is partly true and partly false. Slavery was very profitable for those plantations that were large enough to employ the gang system. Technology would have changed that though and would have done so a lot sooner if the war had not destroyed Southern investment capital and broken up the large plantations. European pressure was also building and would have push the South towards abolition. The British in particular were becoming increasingly fanatical about it. But the biggest reason the South could not have survived as a slave society has to do with the cost of dealing with fugitive slaves. With the north no longer constitutionally obliged to return runaway slaves the South could not have afforded to maintain a slave economy. There have only been five examples in history of societies that built their entire economies on slave labor: the Greeks, the Romans, the Caribbean Islands, Brazil, and Dixie. The one thing they all had in common was the ability to socialize the cost of runaway slave management. In every case except Dixie the slave economy ended when this advantage disappeared. In the case of Brazil this was particularly dramatic. One province abolished slavery, runaway slaves began flocking there, and the economies of all the other provinces collapsed. The large slave owners then began calling for abolition as a means of encouraging workers to stay and work.

33 posted on 01/19/2011 12:04:21 PM PST by SeeSharp
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To: kosciusko51
I tend to laugh out loud when I read tripe as this. This fight was settled long ago, yet there are those who still want to blame someone or something. I am all for righting wrongs, yet it is just plain simple wrong to keep drudging up lies and stating those lies as truth. Examples...Since the end of that terrible war, where brother fought against brother, the truth is states rights were decided in that war. Now while I do not believe such, for states' rights remains in the Constitution, yet if one asks most politicians, politicians will not say states' rights have been dissolved in favor of the whole flying under the flag of the Stars and Stripes, yet that is what most politicians think based on their actions and disdain for any state willing to go up against the federal monster....imho

This fact is about to be observed, first hand, in the Zer0care fight. This fact has already been observed in Arizona, with the federal monster taking on Arizona in the illegal immigration fight. There are countless other examples of the federal monster fighting against states' rights. The piece, by the author, does nothing but antagonize feelings to come to the surface, to ignore the facts of the day....imho

36 posted on 01/19/2011 12:07:25 PM PST by no-to-illegals (Please God, Bless and Protect Our Men and Women in Uniform with Victory. Amen.)
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To: kosciusko51

I think it is a classic liberal smear - The south was bad because secession was only about slavery, the north was bad because the war didn’t have anything to do with slavery, so ultimately whether you are from the north or south, you are bad, responsible for slavery, so send out some reparation checks.


39 posted on 01/19/2011 12:09:35 PM PST by Wayne07
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To: kosciusko51

Well, if the Washington Post prints it, it must be true... but that aside, what too many people COMPLETELY overlook is that the South didn’t go to war over anything... it declared independence from the North, for whatever reasons people wish to argue, and only FOUGHT BACK when occupied or otherwise made war upon by the North! That’s a distinction that cannot be stressed enough. It was a war of independence, same as the 13 colonies separating from Britain. Second, and just as important, is why the North started the war in the first place. Anyone who thinks it was to wipe out slavery flunks American history outright. It was entirely about “preserving the union,” much the same way Turkey wanted to preserve their “union” when the Balkan states began agitating for independence. Honest Abe himself said that if he could preserve the union by freeing all of the slaves, some of the slaves, or none of the slaves... he would do it. Holding the nascent empire together was the only thing that mattered in the end.


47 posted on 01/19/2011 12:15:10 PM PST by Chiltepe
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To: kosciusko51

The reason the States seceded was States Rights and the Morill Tax.

Like Democratic politicians of this very day and age, the issue was brought to false importance by Lincoln as a way to gain support for his over-the-top, slash and burn, scorched earth policy against American citizens who were fairly exercising their Constitutional rights. Lincoln stated the reason he could not allow secession was that the government simply could not survive on its own resources in the North. “The Great Emancipator” only became inured of the defense of freeing the slaves as a political ploy.

Here are some of Lincoln’s comments on African-Americans before it became politically expedient for him to change them.

Abraham Lincoln Quote

“I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races - that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything.”

African-Americans have been allowing themselves to be bought and sold by politicians ever since.

http://www.ashevilletribune.com/archives/censored-truths/Morrill%20Tariff.html


48 posted on 01/19/2011 12:15:26 PM PST by Aleya2Fairlie
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