It needs to be reduced into component elements, the elements crushed into dust, and the dust recycled.
Frowning takes 68 muscles.
Smiling takes 6.
Pulling this trigger takes 2.
I'm lazy.
Posted on 12/23/2010 11:51:00 AM PST by mainestategop
So Im in the middel of a debate between a group of left wing commies Very hard core I might add. The debate was touched off after a friend of mine from California who was a homeschooling mother of 3 kids came under attack by the commies. It was started off by an evil woman named vampiressontheprowlq who is known for calling freedom a form of fascism and advocating the destruction of America on youtube with her girlfriend and lover.
Here are some excerpts of the filth I have recieved...
Ray Bradbury wrote "Fahrenheit 451", from fresh thoughts in his mind's eye, just after the horrors of WWII, as a commentary on Nazi Germany's Far Right Conservative "Free Market Fascist" Anti-Democratic Authoritarian Nationalist Militaristic privatized society, its sadistic Inequality & Social Darwinist "Survival of the Fittest"--Healthiest/Strongest/Wealthy Successful Producers" rewarded for Business Profiteering from suffering in Nazi Germany's privatized, Deregulated Market Oppression of Labor Unions, Ethnic Minorities, Immigrants, Leftists/Socialists & Intellectuals (who love books), Civil Rights/Liberties, Free Speech & Free Expression.
"Fahrenheit 451" was NOT a commentary on Big Govt Welfare NWO "Big Brother" "Political Correctness" Tyranny or Totalitarian USSR.
Bradbury even confirms what i say, in the foreword of his book & several interviews!
. . . the Soviet Union did not ever burn books. only Nazi regime burned books in Europe in the 20th century (and Conservative Traditional-Culture rural Christian extremists, Southern Racist Rednecks, Slave-owning Plantation Landowners in 1600s-1900s America, Europe 11-14th centuries & Crusades burned books)
but only Nazis in 20th century.
. . . Soviet Union did not ever burn books.
. . . nor did Eastern Bloc Socialist countries during the Cold War.
. . . nor has S. Amer. or European Democratic Leftist "Socialist" country ever burned books.
VampiressOnDaProwlq 1 week ago
This was followed by a rebuttal then an attack by a friend of hers who is known to be an anti american activist and marxist.
As has been repeated to you here already, the Soviets may have censored material but they were not the burners of books. And then you just went off on some meaningless slander. If you're home schooling, you should be arrested for child abuse. As is typical, homeschooling usually just means that the unqualified and ignorant are creating more of the same, it's so sad, your children disserve a REAL education from people who actually know what they are talking about. Stalin, He was certainly no angel and was responsible for the purges of the military and party, but to try an allege that he killed more than Hitler is a bad joke. All you can do is try and use bad numbers and natural events beyond the control of the gov't and then you must still also inflate the numbers. If the same accounting methods are used to examine capitalism that are used to try and indict Stalin than capitalism itself comes out the bigger killer Postwar demographics alone make nonsense of the claim. Eastern Europe was no more enslaved than Latin America in the same period under US-style anti-communism. If anything soviet style socialism was far less bloody than those American nations unfortunate enough to be in the US cold war sphere. As to low wages in China I know of no Asian regime that pays its workers a living wage. Sweeping generalizations are so easy to make, like macaroni and cheese from a box. Just add water. Right, mom? What a joke, there had ALWAYS been great famines in Russia even before it was communist. The market cannot address famines because the people in the famine regions lack the resources to acquire food from any sort of market. The 'Market' doesn't matter in such cases. And socialists do not deny that there was a famine in the Ukraine but like many historians we can look beyond the foolish propaganda of the Rightists trying to blame it all on socialism. would just like to point out that I and a number of other scholars have shown conclusively that the famine of 1931-1933 was by no means limited to Ukraine, was not a "man-made" or artificial famine in the sense that she and other devotees of the Ukrainian famine argument assert, and was not a genocide in any conventional sense of the term Mark B. Tauger, "The 1932 Harvest and the Soviet Famine of 1932-1933," Slavic Review v. 50 no. 1, Spring 1991, 70-89, and my exchanges of letters with Robert Conquest over this article, Slavic Review v. 51 no. 1, 192-194 and v. 53 no. 1, 318-319.
Mark B. Tauger, Natural Disaster and Human Actions in the Soviet Famine of 1931-1933, Carl Beck Papers in Russian and East European Studies, no. 1506, June 2001
Libertarians believe that the only rights that really matters are property rights, that inviolate private property is the only true measure of freedom. And so if you don't have any, too bad, let them find somebody else's property to complain on. They require perfection as the only applicable standard to judge government: libertarianism, being imaginary, cannot be fairly judged to have flaws. It is the philosophy that has and is underlying the elitist dictatorships around the world You know nothing about history. The private sector only sees to its own not the needs of the people in general. It has been barred out that laissez faire only increases the gap between the Rich and the poor. That was the case before the depression of '29. By 1929, the richest 1 percent will own 40 percent of the nation's wealth. The bottom 93 percent will have experienced a 4 percent drop in real disposable per-capita income And so it has become similar thanks to the 'free-market' crap pushed on us since Reagan and Greenspan's libertarian fantasies. And property is NOT freedom. Libertarians foolishly only think that property rights bring freedom, buts it's just too bad if you can't get any property and are therefore enslaved to those that can afford property. It is a philosophy of greed A 'free-market' 'small gov't' state is a corporate fascist state where the corporations can do what they wish because there is no governmental power to restrain them. Filling the power vacuum left by eviscerated gov't they become the gov't. Libertarianism is fascist Social Darwinist rule of money, those with the most money can do whatever they wish while the working people suffer without assistance victimized by a market they cannot control Libertarians are nazis. Communist countries have seen the greatest and fastest growth in their standard of living. Communism brought Russia out of a backward existence and made it a world power in little more than a generation. And in the Soviet Union that did not know poverty we now see it explode and the life expectancy drastically decline.
really then could you inform us how you would allow books you disagree with to be printed and how would you maintain your power if your ideology became the 'rule of law". Capitalism is about Greed and the Nazis loved capitalists.Volkswagen would not have existed without them. Capitalism is an evil disgusting beast that if it cannot be killed at least it should be chained so that it's most evil aspects are stopped.You are one sick perverted individual but typical of your kind
This continued on an on and then they demanded I quote from books by scholars which is what brings me here. I need some good literary works and material to fight back against this socialist dog crap online preferably. Also feel free to join in if you have a youtube account.
Use the books written by Alexander Solzhenitsyn including “The Gulag Archipelago”, “The First Circle”, “Cancer Ward”, and “One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich”.
“the Soviets may have censored material but they were not the burners of books”
So,, then,,, the actual FLAME is the problem? That crap was so full of historical inaccuracy that it cannot be refuted to these people. The starting point here is that they claim Nazi Germany was PRIVATIZED and DEREGULATED.
There are more productive ways to spend your time. There are people who can be swayed,, but these hard core nuts are nothing but a waste of effort.
So right. You can never win with these wackos so go drink a beer or something enjoyable and forget about it. Its Christmas. Merry Christmas.
As a certified Oldster, I can tell you that time - and life - go by very quickly; don’t waste them on pointless trivia.
Liberals deal in slogans, circular argumentation & specious reasoning. They’re not compatible with facts & reality. Don’t waste your time.
The National Socialist Workers Party of Germany, otherwise known as the Nazi Party, was indeed socialist, and it had a lot in common with the modern left. Hitler preached class warfare, agitating the working class to resist “exploitation” by capitalists — particularly Jewish capitalists, of course. Their program called for the nationalization of education, health care, transportation, and other major industries. They instituted and vigorously enforced a strict gun control regimen. They encouraged pornography, illegitimacy, and abortion, and they denounced Christians as right-wing fanatics.
Yet a popular myth persists that the Nazis themselves were right-wing extremists. This insidious lie biases the entire political landscape, and the time has come to expose it.
Here’s some facts:
1. The Soviets purged all previous materials from the Czarist days when they took over, except for a collection owned by the KGB. This was all done by the gov’t, in a country where literacy was not commonplace, so it didn’t require the public to bring in books- they just went and got them, and disposed of them quietly. Then it was just a matter for them to make sure nothing got published they didn’t like. Ask your opponents why samizdat was necessary, if the Soviets were so ‘tolerant’.
2. The Soviet system created poverty for all except for the communist party members, who had the best of everything, meaning toilet paper with no splinters. No truly classless society is possible, and the Soviet Union is a good example of what happens when it is tried.
3. You want some authors to read, try Alexander Solzhenitsyn, Herta Muller, and Vaclav Havel.
Good luck arguing with communists though. They are usually best dealt with using an M1 Garand....
Go to Youtube and get a bunch of Milton Friedman videos, especially his interview with Phil Donahue.
Friedman will save having to do a bunch of research, and he is articulate and easy to hear.
Pro Commies are ALWAYS athiests. If you are a Christian raise the level of the discussion to wittnessing to them about the Lord. If you are not a Christian...
Soviet Union did not ever burn books. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ The USSR merely banned them. One of my employees, a former dentist in the old communist Bulgaria, told me banned books were written on tiny slips of paper and carefully passed from person to person.
Democrat friend, Marxist friend, liberal friend, progressive friend...etc.
ALL OF THE ABOVE ARE OXYMORONS!!!!! ( Yes!, I am shouting!)
Get them out of your life. **ALL** of the above are either too evil or too stupid to be a friend.
“Yet a popular myth persists that the Nazis themselves were right-wing extremists. This insidious lie biases the entire political landscape, and the time has come to expose it.”
This came from Socialist American Journos of the 40’s, who didn’t like Bolshevism and International Socialism being compared to Nazism.
Much of the American Media SUPPORTED Hitler’s idea’s, especially Eugenics, right up until he attacked the Soviet Union, when he instantly became Public Enemy Number 1.
William Shirer, committed Socialist and American Journo, reinforced this meme in his “Rise and Fall of The Third Reich”, always conveniently forgetting to mention the Socialist aspects, and Socialist propoganda, of Hitler’s regime, and rise to power.
I don’t agree with the theory of total disengagement, at least not until you’ve broken one or two of their main pillars. That doesn’t mean you have to win; it only means you have to show there is a substantial body of scholarship for which they have failed to account. Calmly make them look uninformed. They hate that.
Ignore the Fahrenheit 451 nonsense. An author can say whatever he likes, but his interpretation of history is not history. Don’t waste your time on authorial interpretation. Stay with history. It is your best friend.
Their twin premises that Nazi’s were rightists and that book burning logically flowed from their right-wing aspirations are both demonstrably false, as it is relatively easy to show the Nazis were hard left socialists. However, the arguments can be technical and can entangle you in endless hours of trying to set shared definitions of terms. Probably not worth the effort in a hostile setting.
Their premise that Stalin was a nice guy who got blind-sided by a widespread famine is their exposed underbelly. Go for that, as there is much history and a huge churn of modern of scholarship to help you. Stick with obvious, indisputable fact. Let them wander off into wild reinterpretation if they must; you only need to keep your focus and leave a record that their historical facts (or lack thereof) are part of a long-standing campaign to rehabilitate Stalin’s regime through a policy of systematic disinformation. Break them there, and their other arguments become clouded with doubt. But even in this, do not spend inordinate time wrangling with them over nitpicks. Let your main cannon roar, and leave them to pick up the little pieces on their own. You will not dissuade them in a single session.
Some resources on the Ukrainian Famine to get you started:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial_of_the_Holodomor
Do valiantly.
Peace,
SR
Sage advice...I don't waste my valuable time with democrats/communists/progressives...let them foam at the mouth in isolation.
This argument about book burning appears to be a “watch the right hand, not the left hand” argument.
Whether they burned books or not is really immaterial. Tens of millions of lives were lost under the ideology of a centrally controlled state, regardless of what letters come before the suffix ‘ism’.
What modest praise of a system, to say “They may have made tens of millions disappear into the Gulags without a trace, and they may have allowed 20 million Ukrainians starve to death, but at least they didn’t burn books”.
Socialism is the maturation of iniquity; evil incarnate as a governing state.
The German Army was even sent to the Soviet Union to train to avoid the limitations imposed by the Versailles treaty.
Communist countries have seen the greatest and fastest growth in their standard of living. Communism brought Russia out of a backward existence and made it a world power in little more than a generation.
When one starts with nothing, a little of anything is enough to raise their standard of living from squalid to squalid with a non-leaky roof. The communists "freed" the Czar's peasants and made them communist slaves, forcing them to work on land they didn't own for crops they could not keep. Throwing a loaf of bread a day to the peasants is what this idiot is calling "raising their standard of existance".
Freedom is hard. Any idiot can scratch out a life under communism because the state provides with the barest of necessities.
Ask this bonehead if she's ever been to a communist country.
It needs to be reduced into component elements, the elements crushed into dust, and the dust recycled.
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