Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

High-Speed Pork - Why fast trains are a waste of money.
Newsweek ^ | October 29, 2010 | Robert Samuelson

Posted on 10/29/2010 12:49:57 PM PDT by re_tail20

Somehow, it has become fashionable to think that high-speed trains connecting major cities will help “save the planet.” They won’t. They’re a perfect example of wasteful spending masquerading as a respectable social cause. They would further burden already-overburdened governments and drain dollars from worthier programs—schools, defense, research.

Let’s suppose that the Obama administration gets its wish to build high-speed rail systems in 13 urban corridors. The administration has already committed $10.5 billion, and that’s just a token down payment. California wants about $19 billion for an 800-mile track from Anaheim to San Francisco. Constructing all 13 corridors could easily approach $200 billion. Most (or all) of that would have to come from government. What would we get for this huge investment?

Not much. Here’s what we wouldn’t get: any meaningful reduction in traffic congestion, greenhouse-gas emissions, air travel, or oil consumption and imports. Nada, zip. If you can do fourth-grade math, you can understand why.

High-speed intercity trains (not commuter lines) travel at up to 250 miles per hour and are most competitive with planes and cars over distances of less than 500 miles. In a report on high-speed rail, the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service examined the 12 corridors of 500 miles or less with the most daily air traffic in 2007. Los Angeles to San Francisco led the list with 13,838 passengers; altogether, daily air passengers in these 12 corridors totaled 52,934. If all of them switched to trains, the number of airline passengers, about 2 million a day, would drop only 2.5 percent. Any fuel savings would be less than that; even trains need fuel.

(Excerpt) Read more at newsweek.com ...


TOPICS: Travel
KEYWORDS: highspeedrail; robertsamuelson

1 posted on 10/29/2010 12:49:59 PM PDT by re_tail20
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: re_tail20

Why do you need no-goods getting to the welfare office faster? Because that’s what you’re subsidizing...People with real jobs don’t need this (at least SHOULDN’T need this)...


2 posted on 10/29/2010 12:55:30 PM PDT by Gaffer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: re_tail20; Willie Green

I see you! ;)

(From comments)

Willie Green

Robert Samuelson should be well aware that the true “high speed rail” technology that he’s writing about (up to 250 mph) is primarily electrically powered. And since the vast majority of electricity generated for the grd does not come from petroleum based resources, would represent a major reduction in petroleum consumed for transportation.

Since it would be ludicrous to assume that Robert Samuelson is ignorant of these facts, one can only conclude that this column is written as political disinformation on behalf of Oil Interests.

It’s time for the American People to stop accepting such corrupt “journalism” from our major media outlets.

Today, 11:24:48 AM


3 posted on 10/29/2010 12:57:23 PM PDT by wheresmyusa
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: re_tail20; Willie Green
Choo, Choo train ping!
4 posted on 10/29/2010 12:57:57 PM PDT by HuntsvilleTxVeteran ((B.?) Hussein (Obama?Soetoro?Dunham?) Change America Will Die From.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: HuntsvilleTxVeteran; wheresmyusa

I just looked.

And no; Willie has not been zotted. Yet.

I haven’t seen much of Willie since Jim Thompson himself told him to “zip it or zot it” a few weeks ago.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2607597/posts?page=65#65


5 posted on 10/29/2010 1:22:48 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd (Yes, as a matter of fact, what you do in your bedroom IS my business.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: re_tail20

The Great Robert Samuelson !!!

I love this guy- smart and honest.

Unfortunately, cousin to that idiot Larry “Summers”


6 posted on 10/29/2010 1:35:55 PM PDT by DontTreadOnMe2009 (So stop treading on me already!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: re_tail20

Wow! Newsweak gets one right.


7 posted on 10/29/2010 1:53:29 PM PDT by TigersEye (Who crashed the markets on 9/28/08 and why?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Responsibility2nd
I just looked.

And no; Willie has not been zotted. Yet.

I haven’t seen much of Willie since Jim Thompson himself told him to “zip it or zot it” a few weeks ago.

I was wondering why I haven't seen any of "Boxcar" Willie's dreck in a few days. I missed that thread. Thanks.

8 posted on 10/29/2010 1:53:33 PM PDT by OldMissileer (Atlas, Titan, Minuteman, PK. Winners of the Cold War)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: OldMissileer

I ran the numbers. The only profitable shinkansen is the Japanese one from Osaka to Tokyo.

Assuming that Americans have the same train habits as the Japanese (a huge assumption), the highest corridor with the same per capita population per mile is Boston - Washington with 60 percent.

SF - LA is a longer distance than Osaka to Tokyo, fewer people and works out to only be about 20 percent.

I am glad to finally see some sober analysis.


9 posted on 10/29/2010 2:09:57 PM PDT by BenKenobi (Support COD - "Cash on Delivery" for DE Senate!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: re_tail20

High speed rail makes sense under some situations.

To start with, the US transportation system needs a redesign, and rural high speed rail makes much more sense as part of this.

Rail is a very efficient form of transport for cargo. It is second only to ships for getting goods moved at least cost and energy used. The further the distance, the more efficient rail gets.

Right now, America’s airport system has two major problems. The first is that it is located in population centers, and the second is that it transports both passengers and cargo.

To get around this, ideally we need a second set of airports built *away* from population centers, in rural areas, and surrounded by very large buffers to prevent development around them. These would be exclusively to move cargo, and by doing so, they would reduce traffic at passenger airports significantly, to everyone’s advantage.

But since it is desirable to have these cargo airports out in the boonies, you need to then transfer their cargoes to another form of transport, to move it to urban areas.

Since cargo hubs would be far fewer, each hub would probably service several States, and *here* is where high speed rail would come into its own. If a population center was not too far away, trucks would be best. But if it is in the hundreds of miles, high speed rail would be a quick way to move cargo from the air hub to a closer truck hub.

And because high speed rail would connect from the air cargo hub to several cities, it would also be a convenient way to connect cargo transfer directly between cities.

So all together, it forms a comprehensive system with optimum efficiency for the each distance the cargo must travel.

It reduces the number of planes flying over metro areas, by limiting them to passenger transport.

It uses high speed rail in rural areas, so it does not have to slow down because of people in the area. And it uses trucks for short haul in and out of populated areas.


10 posted on 10/29/2010 2:26:31 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Willie Green

Where’s your response? Come on, Man Up and take care of your responsibilities!


11 posted on 10/29/2010 2:42:34 PM PDT by B4Ranch (Conflict is inevitable; Combat is an option. Train for the fight.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: re_tail20
California wants about $19 billion for an 800-mile track from Anaheim to San Francisco. Constructing all 13 corridors could easily approach $200 billion.

Boondoggle

12 posted on 10/29/2010 3:21:09 PM PDT by calcowgirl ("In politics the middle way is none at all." -- John Adams)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Responsibility2nd

Willie is still alive and lurking; i just got a sound thrashing in an email. XD

So, take heart with the knowledge that your pings aren’t going unnoticed.


13 posted on 10/29/2010 8:12:28 PM PDT by wheresmyusa
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: re_tail20
California wants about $19 billion for an 800-mile track from Anaheim to San Francisco.

They could probably do it for $9.5 billion then, since the two cities are only 400 miles apart. :)

14 posted on 10/29/2010 8:15:08 PM PDT by Mr. Jeeves ( "The right to offend is far more important than any right not to be offended." - Rowan Atkinson)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson