Posted on 09/13/2010 8:09:45 AM PDT by nikos1121
Many people think that I am against renewable energy systems, such as solar and wind. I can assure you that I am not. I admire those who live off the land and use our natural resources wisely. There are, however, only a few in this country who are living “off the grid.” There are a goodly number of others that are generating part of their energy needs from solar, wind or water. In my dreams, I could do that. I could just live at the deer camp and use my little six-inch, 12-volt television while cooking my dinner on a wood or propane stove. I could get my light from a battery or propane-powered lantern and my water from a well with a hand pump. Actually, I have done that and totally enjoyed it for about… five days. After that, I wondered how the pioneers made it. Well, in real life, I think one of the most important discoveries ever is electricity. I consider it an absolute blessing. For the cost of a hamburger, fries and a small drink per day, I can do many wonderful things in our house, such as heat, cool, cook, refrigerate, light and watch football. Make your list and you will agree. With that said, I do not believe in wasting any of our energy resources. I think that producing some of our energy from solar or wind is a noble thought, but I have a better way. In the early 1980s, I was working for the federal government to provide low-income housing. In that role, I was responsible for the installation of about 1,000 solar systems. The U.S. government wanted it done and I did it. It was an exciting time. Two of the systems had 220 solar panels each. Everyone was impressed. Folks would say, “Oh boy, Doug has got it going.” An engineer from Huntsville, AL, had a different view, however. He told me I would see the day when I would not want my name associated with these projects. I thought he was crazy. But, unfortunately, he was right. Both systems were total failures in less than 10 years. In fact, nearly all of the systems failed in less than 15 years. I thought there must be a better way.
Just over a year ago, I had the opportunity to work with a company that was willing to purchase, install and monitor a quality solar voltaic system and a quality wind generating system. The solar system cost more than $50,000 installed. The system is monitored daily and has produced an average of 409 kilowatt-hours of electricity per month. This would save about $50 per month on an electric bill. A simple payback would be $50,000 divided by $50 per month equals 1,000 divided by 12 equals 84 years. I think there is a better way. The wind turbine cost $15,000 installed and has produced about 58 kilowatt-hours a month. This would save about $7 per month on an electric bill. That would calculate into a simple payback of 180 years. Now I know I have a better way. And being the nice guy that I am, I plan to tell you about it next month. See you then.
Please read this short article especially the last paragraph.
I am sick and tired at the mis-information regarding renewable energy sources. If Green energy was so beneficial why the massive goverment subsidies?
This short article puts it all in perspective, and gives us the facts to debate fuzzy headed liberals who believe that the answer to our energy needs short and long term is wind and solar energy. TO THE CONTRARY, THIS IS ANOTHER EXAMPLE OF THE PUBLIC BEING BAMBOOZLED by dumb politicians and the likes of T. Boone Pickens.
Until there is some breakthrough in technology, coal, nuclear, gas and oil produced electricity is by far the more efficient.
We should be expanding our nuclear sources of energy not some rediculous idea of landscaping our country with the eye-sores of acre upon acre of wind farms.
But, to an enviro, his “free” electricity is “free” ... to him.
The subsidies for the wind, solar, rebates, and the direct electric rates subsidies and extra costs to the utilities, of course, are from the “other people” (who pay taxes) who must absorb the costs.
Good article.
I wonder why they don’t generate electricity from ocean wave turbines. Waves are much more consistent than wind, and water obviously contains a lot more mass, so a single wave turbine should be able to generate many times more power than any wind turbine.
Salt water is extremely corrosive and until scientists and enginneers can overcome that, it’ll be unavailable.
There is NO payback on a solar and/or small wind system capable of running a typical household. For a remote cabin where you have few alternatives, fine, but don’t tell me it will pay back the upfront investment. If you set aside air conditioning and heating, the biggest use of electricity in the home by far is for water heating (which is proportional to dish and clothes washing). So yeah, if you heat with wood, beat your clothes on a rock in the river and hang your plates up to get scoured by the wind, you can save money on electricity.
The only thing I will say is that as LED lighting becomes cheaper, it will make solar/small wind more feasible for standby power. Just keep matches, kerosene, and a pile of wood handy for everything else.
Maybe because no one has been able to design or produce a system that won't bankrupt the consumers of the "free" electricity that would be generated.
They keep thinking that sunshine and wind is "free". I'm afraid they are about the most expensive energy sources you can find.
A Wind & Solar system is possible to build for about $10000.
Wind is much cheaper at about$.75 to 1.00 per watt, Solar is going to cost about $3.00-5.00 per watt.
The main problem with Wind & Solar is AC, The AC unit just uses so much juice.
If you live in the SW with dry air a Swamp cooler will work rather than a AC unit.
You forgot hydro electric. Niagara Mohawk turbines are turning as long as the water keeps flowing out of the Great Lakes.
Also wood biomass(pellets, chips, shavings) actually pays for itself by burning a cheap renewable resouce to generate steam and turn a turbine. However, those plants cost about $50 million , according to sawmills that I deal with. This is a potential that we should develop more in this country.
... was wondering the same thing. Will check back later
A friend of mine worked in the business for a quite some time. It is possible to build a system that will get you off the grid for way less than 50k.
I spend a fair amount of time on www.backwoodshome.com’s forum.
There are a few people who are off-grid there.
The consensus seems to be that, in order to make it work, you have to reduce your demands. LED or 12v lighting helps. Non-electric heat is essential. Pretty much forget about AC, at least for the whole house.
Most seem to be using propane or wood heat, or some combination. Propane for cooking. Some use propane refrigerators. There’s a lot you can do to reduce your electrical needs and then the PV or wind system can be smaller and more manageable. Conservation/insulation also plays a large role.
Where you live plays a big role too both how much you can reduce your energy usage, and what sorts of energy alternatives are practical. One size definitely does not fit all when it comes to alternative energy.
That makes a lot of sense. I really need to find a site/source for LED bulbs.
I cook and heat with propane now. I’m halfway there! 8)
My friend said my pay off would be 8-12 years.
somehow you'd think they could use what they've learned building ships?
A $50,000 Solar system that produces only 409 Kilowatt hours per month?! Where is it installed? Alaska?
We installed a $50,000 solar system on 06/21/2010. (Less than $40K after rebates.) It’s generating between 44 and 53 Kilowatt Hours of AC power PER DAY.
Today it indicates that in a total of 1125 hours of daylight operation so far, is has generated a total of 4.01 MegaWatt Hours of AC power since we first turned it on. It also claims to have saved over 2.5 tons of CO2 so far, but I don’t care about that unless I can figure out how to sell some carbon credits... ;-)
It uses thirty five, 230 watt, high efficiency mono crystalline SunPower panels and an 8KW Grid Tied MPPT SunPower inverter. (In San Jose, CA.) Horizon Energy Systems did our installation.
This made sense for us, since we were paying PG&E, with its progressive tiering, over $700 per month for power and gas. Now the bill is well under $100 and mostly for gas. (Yes, we know it won’t do as well in the Winter, but we won’t be using the air conditioners then, either.)
Solar isn’t for everyone. You need good sunlight in your area, A big enough South facing roof, with no shadows from nearby trees, etc. and an unreasonable heavily tiered electricity pricing scheme from your local power provider (>50 cents per tier 5 kilowatt hour, anyone?) to make it worth while. It also helps to pay cash and avoid interest charges. We expect to be “in the green” in less than 7 years.
I did a lot of research on solar systems before buying a few panels and batteries to experiment with. The cost of panels is slowly coming down. The problem is still the batteries. Half the cost of a properly designed system is quality batteries that will last more than a few years. My conclusion (calculated on 13.5 cents/KWH) is that the panels could eventually pay for themselves, but the batteries themselves will die long before they are paid off.
I bought some 3.3 watt 300 lumen LED lights for my travel trailer. They have the typical 12v bayonet base found in RV fixtures. Those little gems cost $30 each! Their intense light is very directional and will burn the eyes unless put behind an opaque diffuser. Even then, you don’t want to stare at them for long. For alternate home/cabin lighting, regular CFL lights run from an inverter are cheaper and more pleasing. 9w = 500 lumens and 13w = 900 lumens. Their light is more evenly dispersed and pleasant to look at. I can light up 4 rooms in my house very nicely using only 52 watts. A single deep cycle battery will power that setup for quite a few evenings.
$.5/kw-h WOW!
Appreciate the commonsense report.
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