Posted on 06/07/2010 7:45:38 AM PDT by Willie Green
China's $1T USD high speed rail gambit leaps ahead
High speed rail is right up there with electric vehicles when it comes to promising green solutions to transportation in the new millennium. High speed rail uses electricity and mass-transit to drastically cut emissions when compared to automobile travel. And it's expected to be far faster and more cost effective transportation method, albeit with some big up front costs for infrastructure. Much as the original coal-burning locomotive and oil-burning automobile revolutionized transportation in the 19th and 20th centuries, the electric locomotive looks to transform society in the 21st century.
The U.S. under President Barack Obama has committed $13B USD in high speed rail investment. That seems somewhat impressive until one hears about China's high speed rail commitment. China has already spent $259B USD on high speed rail and plans on spending a total of $1T USD by 2020 to install 16,000 miles of high speed rail track -- or roughly 1/3 of the length of the U.S.'s total interstate highway system.
China put the exclamation point on its efforts last week with the unveiling of its flagship high speed rail model, the 380A train. With a 236 miles per hour top cruising speed, the train is the world's fastest.
A handful of maglev trains can beat the 380A in top speed, but they are unable to sustain a faster average speed. The "380" part of its name comes from its 236 mph cruising speed which translates into 380 kilometers per hour. The train will offer a 4 hour ride between Shanghai and Beijing. That cuts the trip time to less than a third of the driving time (12 to 13 hours).
A Chinese firm, Changchun Railway Vehicles Co., makes the impressive vehicles. The first production model, the "He Xie", was unveiled last week at a ceremony in Changchun, the capital of the northeastern province of Jilin in China. At the ceremony, the Chinese government pledged to purchase 100 of the speedy trains.
High speed rail will provide the Chinese economy with a unique advantage as it continues to grow and expand. Business travelers will be able to make trips much faster and regain literally weeks in productivity each year. And carbon emissions, long a sore spot for China, will be cut in a way that's actually beneficial for the economy.
Meanwhile, the U.S. sees its own plans for high speed rail stalled as it ponders potentially less effective solutions for carbon control like "carbon-credits". The 380A and China's high speed rail ambitions have led some to question if the U.S. will be left behind as the rest of the world embraces high speed rail.
Since Green energy is a fraud, so is this boondoggle.
"Green" energy isn't a fraud.
"Man-made global warming" IS a fraud.
But there is nothing wrong about pursuing "green" technologies that reduce pollution like soot, smog, sulfer emissions acid rain, etc. etc.
Heck, nobody wants to go back to the days of black belching smokestacks blotting out the noonday sun.
Hey Willie,
I’ve asked you dozens of times and you refuse to answer, but I’ll try again:
Where do we get the trillions of dollars needed to build your train sets?
Come over the China, Willie, and you can ride these trains. I ride them, I live in China half the year. The differences are stark:
1. China doesn’t have a $1.6 trillion deficit, and $1 trillion annual deficits predicted for the next 20 years. They actually have the cash to do it.
2. The density of the corridors they are developing eclipse even the NE Corridor of AMTRAK. From Ningbo to Nanjing (Ningbo, Hangzhou, Shanghai, Suzhou, Wuxi, Nanjing - about 3 hours by fast train) you have close to 80 MILLION people in a 250 mile distance. Way beyond any density here in the US. That’s the same distance as New York City to Boston, but with 8 times the number of people.
3. The geography where these trains are going is radically different. All along the Yellow Sea it is predominantly flats with isolated - or very small groups of - short (under 1000 foot) hills. You don’t have the Allegheny Mountains, let alone the Rockies, the Sierra Nevadas, the Cascades, and on and on. COMPLETELY different geography.
4. 80% of the population in China can’t drive - no license, no car. Cars are expensive to buy (more expensive in absolute dollars than in the US), and the plates are big bucks (a Shanghai license plate runs about $8000). For a family making $12,000 per year (a decent middle-income cost) the cost of the license plate alone is unobtainable.
5. Gas is the same price in China as in the US, meaning for a person earning $1000 per month (a solid middle-class income) their fuel costs are about 8 times as high as here in the US. Paying 7.4 RMB per liter (what I paid in April) works out to $4.10 per gallon.
6. China is MASSIVELY expanding their air transportation as well. Dozens of new airports and thousands of new small (50-150 passenger) jets are coming in the next 10 years. Trains will be used for predominantly short (under 3 hour) high-density runs, planes for everything else.
You don’t know of what you speak, Willie. You have a pipe-dream and are caught in your tunnel vision, and you cannot admit that there is no way we have the money to build this, nor do we have the need to build this. We don’t have the cash or the people (potential ridership) to do so.
Assume $2 trillion invested, and assume 30 million new riders a year (1 out of every 5 adults in the US rides the train). Over the 50 year lifespan of those tracks, Willie, we are subsidizing - on just the raw cost, not including the time value of money or operational subsidies - $1300 PER YEAR per rider for those 50 years. $65,000 per rider, Willie, is that your idea of a good investment?
So come on Willie, tell us where the trillions of dollars come from. Tell us how it’s good to subsidize thousands of dollars per rider.
The restoration of passenger rail travel would not force anyone to abandon automobiles, motorcycles, air, boats, bicycles or buses. It could, however, offer more choices for long distance travel, for the elderly, the disabled, parents with small children and people who have a fear of flying and driving, or cannot own automobiles.
http://www.howstuffworks.com/maglev-train.htm
http://faculty.washington.edu/jbs/itrans/amtteam.htm
Before automobiles, rail moved this nation and is still responsible for distribution of all our commodities.
Don’t be so dismissive - no-one is going to confiscate your GM manufactured automobile - oooooooooooops sorry;(
We already clean our emissions to the point of near purity. Your exageration of belching smokestacks is the oldest lib ploy in the books. Coal and Oil are the answers to our energy needs and are perfectly clean. Far more efficient than solar or wind. Green is a Fraud.
http://www.brayincandy.com/id206.html
Pray for America
American Money paid for the train,thanks to the Impeached Rapist and the MFN for china.
Do the Europeans, Japanese, Chinese or anyone else have trains that are self-supporting?
Government subsidizes ALL forms of transportation EVERYWHERE.
Amtrak subsidies cost $32 per passenger.
That political misinformation was funded by The Pew Charitable Trust, which is basicly a tax shelter for the heirs of the Sun Oil Company. They have an obvious financial interest in obstructing technologies that are fuel efficient.
Who fricking cares? I don’t want to go to Shanghai or Beijing. This country can’t even run Amtrak. How are they going to run a high speed rail?
ROFL!!!!!
What, do you think the fare covers the cost of the ride?
Huh?
Well?
Do ya?
Just like we used to! Steam trains were not great polluters either ... much of the cloud of smoke was spent steam. With modern pollution controls ....
Coal and Oil are the answers to our energy needs and are perfectly clean. Far more efficient than solar or wind.
BP eradicated any realistic consideration of Oil being a "clean" solution.
Nuclear power is more realistic.
And unless you're gung-ho on those puny little battery powered Obamamobiles,
you better hop aboard the high-speed train bandwagon.
I am a big supporter of Rail, especially long distance freight lines which is much more efficient at moving freight across this nation than long haul trucks. Furthermore, I absolutely agree that high speed passenger rail service works very well in high density urban environments like the northeast corridor.
However, the cost of upgrading rail lines to become high speed compatible in many parts of the country which is quite rural and not a densely populated as the northeast,just isn’t worth the cost considering the interstate highway system we have already in place.
All Laws of Thermodynamics are hereby suspended! Obama says so, big boy!
BP is being blamed for gummit’s overregulation just as your boondoggle train solution. The answer is developing our own resources such as oil and coal rather than listening to the Green fraud. We will be voting out these hoax solutions in Nov.
Pray for America
Where do we get the trillions of dollars needed to build your train sets?
If it were up to me, we would pay for it with a 25% tarrif on Chinese imports.
Come over the China, Willie, and you can ride these trains. I ride them, I live in China half the year. The differences are stark:Yes, the differences are very stark.
I’ll take German trains, because then you get the ICE.
BP is being blamed for gummit’s overregulation just as your
No, BP is being blamed for catstrophic pollution of our Gulf Coast waters.
Get a clue, bray: They're GUILTY.
Somehow I think the U.S. has a lot more to worry about than whether China has a faster train than we do.
The Interstate highway system goes through the same rural areas - it’s called *flyover country*.
Air travel makes it possible for citizens to travel between the East & West coasts. It is expensive, congested and with TSA screening - very time consuming.
Tourism and retirees could make MagLev very affordable and even profitable. Passenger rail fatalities are much lower than highway deaths which is another consideration to the vacationing public.
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