Mosin Nagant Rifle Question

My Gun Case | June 04, 2010 | Humblegunner

[humblegunner]

I have a question for our resident Free Republic firearms experts.

Several years ago I purchased a Mosin Nagant M-44 Carbine at
a gun show. (Винтовка Мосина 7.62 x 54R) I like it.

I have never fired it. Why? I don't trust the ammunition. I have several
boxes (unmarked) of what the vendor at the gun show CLAIMED was
7.62 x 54R. Trouble is, the base of the casings are NOT stamped with
the caliber. What they have stamped there is 21 and 87. My camera is
not good enough to pick this up well, but you get the idea:

The rounds will chamber with no problem. But the lack of a stamped
caliber still bothered me. I stuck one of the rounds into the end of the
barrel to see what kind of fit there was. Turns out the projectile will
not fit more than a little past halfway into the barrel. I was not enthused by this.

By way of comparison, I tried the same trick with a Remington 30.06 and
the projectile fits almost all the way into the barrel. Big difference.

What I'd like to know is if anyone has a Mosin Nagant laying around that
they have safely fired with this type of ammo, let me know.
Maybe stick a round into the end of the barrel and see if that fit is normal for the rifle.

In a couple for weeks I'm going to the TexasCowboy 5th Annual Memorial Shoot
and I'd like to take the old Mosin. So far it's just been a neat addition to
the gun case but I'd rather put it into active service.. without blowing anybody up.

(I'm looking at Eaker here)

[mylife]

Hungary, 21/87, Steel core light ball,147 grain, 1987

Its fine to shoot.

[umgud]

Just checked my latest stash. No head stamps save for “10” on one side and “55” on the other. Mine have brass cases. Looked at some of my earlier ones also. None marked. I’ve been shooting these for years, most in paper wrappers from gun shows. You can buy commercial (non-milsurp) ammo that is probably marked.

If you’re really concerned, put you rifle in a vise and hook a string to the trigger and light it off.

I suspect you’ll have no problems.

[C19fan]

Sort of interesting how Ruskies weapons are idiot proof; reflecting a peasant illiterate army.

[gundog]

Ammo’s fine, and probably mildly corrosive. Headspacing may be a concern.

[The KG9 Kid]

I've never seen 7.62x54R head stamped with the caliber on Combloc military surplus ammunition, but the steel case ammo that you show in the photos is indeed 7.62x54R ammunition.

The 7.62x54R projectile diameter is actually 7.92mm (0.312 in), which is why your 7.62x63 (Winchester .30-06) projectile with a diameter of 7.82 mm (0.308 in) will muzzle check the way you show in your comparison picture.

Also, if you find that the rifle prints groups to the left or right of the target center, extend the bayonet. These rifles were factory zeroed at the front sight post with the bayonet extended if they did it at all.

[Malsua]

Looks like the right ammo to me. The fit you show is normal...I can take a picture of my Mosin the same way if you’d like.

21/87 is Hungarian ammo. It’ll work fine. It is Milsurp so it’s corrosive. I use a bottle of Windex to hose down the bore to neutralize the salts after I’m done shooting. I clean it up like normal when I go home.

[Lazamataz]

I always put an untested gun with dangerous, hotloaded ammunition in the hands of my toddler son, and tell him "Hey! It's a toy! Have fun!"

And then I run.

If there are any survivors, I know the weapon and the ammo was probably okay.

[SWAMPSNIPER]

Military ammo doesn't usually have the calibre stamped into the case, only an arsenal code and a date code.

If you're in doubt of the bullet diameter the only accurate way to measure is to pull a bullet and use a micrometer. A 30/06 bullet is .308 in diameter but some European and Asian .30 calibre guns use .311 dia bullets, the British .303 and the Japanese Arisaka for example

[humblegunner]

Mine is surprisingly accurate for such a cheaply made weapon ($88 at a gun show in Dale City a few years ago)

I beat ya, mine was only $75.00.

The action is smooth as silk and the folding bayonette is just plain cool.

[humblegunner]

The original packaging should say

Plain cheap cardboard, no markings.

Looks like a bulk buy broken down domestically for parcel sales.

[TheThirdRuffian]

Close ups of the various ammo types:

http://7.62x54r.net/MosinID/MosinAmmoID.htm

[lentulusgracchus]

HG, that ammo you have in the photos is definitely 7.62x54R, I have a few hundred rounds of it, both civilian and Soviet arsenal stuff. Berdan primers, acidic and you need to clean after firing.

I have an M44 myself, haven't fired it -- arsenal queen, Tula Arsenal 1946 headstamp and Sov cosmoline on the follower plate (cleaned that off, but good to see).

I have Sellier & Bellot 180-grain civilian softnose stuff, Czech steelcase AP, and the arsenal leftovers (roach-spotted cardboard packets secured by ancient string spun by Russian witches under Ivan the Terrible). The arsenal hardball stuff comes in five-round clips.

[humblegunner]

Its fine to shoot.

So you'll test it in New Braunfels in a couple weeks?

[WoofDog123]

soviet or chinese ammo doesn’t have the caliber often, just factory code and year. The rim on it is the tell, that is 762x56r you have in the picture.

[mylife]

Next week! absolutely!

[lentulusgracchus]

Thanks for the link.

What happened to the other two Ruffians? You the survivor? You're the guy we want to talk to.

[shag377]

I have a Moisin, and I love it.

I went to ammoman and bought my ammo (ammoman.com)

880 rounds for a reasonable price. Free shipping to boot!

And it is good ammo, corrosive, but good. Be sure you clean your weapon.:)

[humblegunner]

The rim on it is the tell, that is 762x56r you have in the picture

Sweet!

[LongElegantLegs]

KGB rifle ping!

[humblegunner]

that is 762x56r

Errr... 54R?