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BREAKING NEWS!!! JUSTICE HAS BEEN DENIED!!!!!
www.safeguardourconstitution.com ^ | 06/02/2010 | www.safeguardourconstitution.com

Posted on 06/03/2010 7:02:50 AM PDT by jy22077

LTC Terry Lakin IS NOT RECEIVING A FAIR TRIAL!!!! Lakin has been DENIED JUSTICE, DUE PROCESS and a FAIR TRIAL http://www.safeguardourconstitution.com/ Lakin needs all the support we can muster.

Everyone needs to email this piece of work and tell him that Lakin has a right to JUSTICE and a FAIR TRIAL. Email away everyone: Daniel J. Dricoll LTC, JA Investigating Officer daniel.driscoll@amedd.army.mil ......http://www.safeguardourconstitution.com/images/stories/documents/io_ruling_on_def_request_for_witnessesevid-usvlakin.pdf Let's make sure this email goes viral! www.safeguardourconstitution.com


TOPICS: Education; Military/Veterans; Reference; Society
KEYWORDS: allaquiver; birthcertificate; breathless; certifigate; exclamatoryabuse; frantic; gaypunct; greatgooglymoogly; hysteria; naturalborncitizen; romney; romney4obama; romneybots4obama; romneybotsvsbirthers; terrylakin; tizzy
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To: jy22077

The author of the pdf document for the ruling states he does not see how these documents that Lakin has requested are relevant to the case.

HUH?!?!?

I’m blonde and I can understand how they’re relevant!

Haven’t finished reading it but wow what a load of bull!


101 posted on 06/03/2010 10:42:55 AM PDT by tutstar (Baptist Ping List-freepmail me to be included or removed. <{{{><)
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To: Responsibility2nd

“Nahhhh. Even the anti-birther Obamabots who FReep here should know who Col. Lakin is.”

Obamabots obviously should, as these threads rightly are an endless source of hilarity to them. But I was speaking of the majority of conservatives who find the whole issue both weird and counterproductive. You know, “normal” people.


102 posted on 06/03/2010 10:44:17 AM PDT by Tublecane
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To: DaveyB

“In a word - yes!

If indeed the executive branch has been usurped by a foreigner (it certainly has been by one with foreign allegiances),then the constitutional crisis that has resulted is catastrophic. I am not convinced that we have been under a legal government since 2008; the usurper has the guns, but not lawful authority.”

That’s a crazy position to take in the middle of two wars.


103 posted on 06/03/2010 10:45:17 AM PDT by Tublecane
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To: Grunthor

In Christ alone?

...yet you sound like you do not support the TRUTH about the so called President to be known.


104 posted on 06/03/2010 10:49:26 AM PDT by tutstar (Baptist Ping List-freepmail me to be included or removed. <{{{><)
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To: Tublecane

Obamabots obviously should, as these threads rightly are an endless source of hilarity to them. But I was speaking of the majority of conservatives who find the whole issue both weird and counterproductive. You know, “normal” people.

_____________________________________________________

And I was speaking about you. You are an Obamabot.

If you chose to ignore the Constitution and what is says about Natural Born Citizenship, and you feel that overwhelming majority of FReepers who question Obama’s citizenshipd are “weird and counterproductive”, then I suggest you go zot yourself.


105 posted on 06/03/2010 10:51:31 AM PDT by Responsibility2nd (PALIN/MCCAIN IN 2012 - barf alert? sarc tag? -- can't decide)
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To: Non-Sequitur

The transcript is at the link that you provided. It shows this statement on page 1 - paragraph 4.


106 posted on 06/03/2010 10:59:12 AM PDT by jcsjcm (American Patriot - follow the Constitution and in God we Trust - Laus Deo)
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To: Tublecane
That’s a crazy position to take in the middle of two wars.

Yah - who would insist that our military be commanded by lawful authority, or even one who give a rat's behind about the liberty of the nation. It is just crazy in the middle of a war to abide by law - why we should just declare marshal law now and suspend the constitution. It is what Hugo Chavez would do! To attempt any moral courage against such a usurpation in a time of war is just crazy.

BTW - this is what a true patriot sounds like...“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude than the animating contest of freedom, — go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen!" - kinda crazy sounding huh?

107 posted on 06/03/2010 11:01:03 AM PDT by DaveyB (Alcohol ,Tobacco and Firearms should be a convenience store not a bureaucracy!)
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To: Responsibility2nd

“And I was speaking about you. You are an Obamabot.”

Really, since when? Not back when he was running for president, considering as how I didn’t vote for him. Not in the meantime, considering I almost never defend him. Probably not in the future, considering I don’t plan to ever vote for or otherwise support him.

Oh, I get it, I’m a robot because I decline to attack him on this particular issue. By which logic I could just as easily argue you, sir, are an Obamabot for failing to call for his impeachment on the grounds of murder. Murder most foul! (Whose murder? Does it really matter, a bunch of people have died in his lifetime, and we can’t prove that he didn’t have a hand in any of them.)

“If you chose to ignore the Constitution and what is says about Natural Born Citizenship”

I don’t suppose I could have a different opinion about what the Constitution says. No, any counter-interpretation would be a lie. A robotic lie. An Obama-robotic lie.

“you feel that overwhelming majority of FReepers who question Obama’s citizenshipd are ‘weird and counterproductive’, then I suggest you go zot yourself”

I do feel that. So do most popular conservative intellectuals (Rush, Beck, Coulter, and so on and so on). I’m not sure about the percentage of GOPers who buy into it, but almost certainly most of those who don’t do so because anything that’s bad for Obama is good for them. Which is why plenty of otherwise sane people have blamed Bush for everything bad under the sun for 10 years now.


108 posted on 06/03/2010 11:02:23 AM PDT by Tublecane
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To: hondact200

“Hey I refuse to pay federal taxes to the IRS until Obozo releases the appropriate forms...”

Well, good luck with that.

Do let us know how that works out for you.


109 posted on 06/03/2010 11:04:44 AM PDT by El Sordo (The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.)
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To: jy22077
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2526508/posts
110 posted on 06/03/2010 11:06:43 AM PDT by rxsid (HOW CAN A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN'S STATUS BE "GOVERNED" BY GREAT BRITAIN? - Leo Donofrio (2009))
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To: DaveyB

“Yah - who would insist that our military be commanded by lawful authority, or even one who give a rat’s behind about the liberty of the nation.”

I’m gonna go out on a limb and say that if you’re going to go ahead and advocate that our armed forces devolve into chaos given that they are led by an illegal tyrant, then we ought to be a little more certain whether the commander in chief’s authority is, in fact, illegal. I’d like there to be a bloody coup, at least, before I advocate a total breakdown of the chain of command and an ethos of everyman for himself.


111 posted on 06/03/2010 11:06:52 AM PDT by Tublecane
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To: jy22077; All
How can a USURPER command our armed forces?
How can a USURPER sign any treaties with foreign governments?
How can a USURPER sign anything into law, let alone the health care monstrosity?

HOW CAN A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN'S STATUS BE "GOVERNED" BY GREAT BRITAIN?

“When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom’s dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.‘s children.
http://fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate.html

Factcheck.org goes on to say this about Obama Sr., Jr. and the British Nationality Act of 1948:

In other words, at the time of his birth, Barack Obama Jr. was both a U.S. citizen (by virtue of being born in Hawaii) and a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies (or the UKC) by virtue of being born to a father who was a citizen of the UKC.
http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/does_barack_obama_have_kenyan_citizenship.html

 

Even the modern day State Department rules discusses the problems associated with dual citizenship:

7 FAM 081: U.S. Policy on Dual Nationality:

(e)While recognizing the existence of dual nationality, the U.S. Government does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause. Dual nationality may hamper efforts by the U.S. Government to provide diplomatic and consular protection to individuals overseas. When a U.S. citizen is in the other country of their dual nationality, that country has a predominant claim on the person.

...

the U.S. Supreme Court has stated that dual nationality is a "status long recognized in the law" and that "a person may have and exercise rights of nationality in two countries and be subject to the responsibilities of both." See Kawakita v. United States, 343 U.S. 717 (1952).

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86563.pdf

So, back to the question: "HOW CAN A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN'S STATUS BE "GOVERNED" BY GREAT BRITAIN?"
It can't. Of course not. Yet, right there, on his campaign web site F.T.S., it's stated that a foreign government "governed" Barry from birth and the reason it did, was that Barry inherited that foreign citizenship by way of his foreign national father (no matter where he was born), a fact backed up by Factcheck.org. Assuming, of course, that Sr. was his legal father at birth.
How, then, could he possibly be a "Natural Born Citizen" of the U.S.?
Barry Soetoro, the divided citizen at birth!

Barack Obama a/k/a Barry Soetoro * NOT Obama / Soetoro
* This assumes HI birth.
A citizen of 2 countries at birth.

http://www.jeffersonsrebels.blogspot.com

Furthermore:  Hawaii's Territorial Law, Chapter 57 - "VITAL STATISTICS, I", shown beginning pg 23 of 29, (the law in effect in 1961) allowed the parents (or grandparents or other relative) of baby's born anywhere in the world to be eligible to apply for a Hawaiian birth certificate. A mailed-in form (without mention of a hospital, doctor, or midwife) signed by one of his grandparents (who forged the parent signature(s)) would have been enough to set up a birth record and a birth certificate at the Dept of Health. The Dept of Health would (presumably) then have automatically sent the names of the parents, their address as given on the mailed-in form , the gender of the child, and the date of birth to the Honolulu Advertiser and Star-Bulletin. The address given for the parents in the newspaper announcements is actually, however, the August 1961 home address of Obama’s maternal grandparents Stanley and Madelyn Dunham [6085 Kalanianaole Highway], and not the 1961 home address of Barack Obama, Sr. [625 11th Ave].) This notification would then have automatically generated the newspaper announcements. (This was the practice of the Honolulu Advertiser and Star-Bulletin at the time).

Bottom line: Even IF (big IF) he was born in HI, he inherited his father's foreign citizenship as well, making him a US citizen by US law and a subject to the crown of her majesty the Queen of England by inheritance, birthright and England's law. He could not be considered a Natural Born Citizen as known by and as intended by the framers.
 
==============================================================================
 
What follows, is a bit of information with regards to the Constitutional term "Natural Born Citizen" (specifically) and NOT about the entire makeup, functions, origins and influences that made/make up our form of government, a Constitutional Republic. Clearly, the framers relied upon many different sources to create our new form of government.

Who, or "what" constituted a natural born citizen was well known to the framers. Jay would not have made such a suggestion to the others (Washington & the rest of those in attendance at the Constitutional Convention) unless there was a clear understanding of what that term meant. The definition comes from a source that not only were the framers familiar with, but the founders (many who were both) as well. And yes, even though most could not speak French, most read French (except, notably, Washington who would defer to Jefferson when such interpretation was needed).

 

NBC in the Constitutional drafts:

June 18th, 1787 - Alexander Hamilton suggests that the requirement be added, as: "No person shall be eligible to the office of President of the United States unless he be now a Citizen of one of the States, or hereafter be born a Citizen of the United States." Works of Alexander Hamilton (page 407).

July 25, 1787 (~5 weeks later) - John Jay writes a letter to General Washington (president of the Constitutional Convention): "Permit me to hint, whether it would be wise and seasonable to provide a strong check to the admission of Foreigners into the administration of our national Government; and to declare expressly that the Commander in Chief of the American army shall not be given to nor devolve on, any but a natural born Citizen." [the word born is underlined in Jay's letter which signifies the importance of allegiance from birth.] http://rs6.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?ammem/hlaw:@field%28DOCID+@lit%28fr00379%29%29:

September 2nd, 1787 George Washington pens a letter to John Jay. The last line reads: "I thank you for the hints contained in your letter"
http://www.consource.org/index.asp?bid=582&fid=600&documentid=71483

September 4th, 1787 (~6 weeks after Jay's letter and just 2 days after Washington wrote back to Jay) - The "Natural Born Citizen" requirement is now found in their drafts. Madison's notes of the Convention
The proposal passed unanimously without debate.

 

Original French version of Vattel's Law of Nations:

Emer de Vattel, Le droit des gens, ou Principes de la loi naturelle, vol. 1 (of 2) [1758]

From Chapter XIX, 212 (page 248 of 592):
Title in French: "Des citoyens et naturels"
To English: "Citizens and natural"

French text (about citizens): "Les citoyens sont les membres de la societe civile : lies a cette societe par certains devoirs et soumis a son autorite, ils participent avec egalite a ses avantages."
-------------------
To English: "The citizens are the members of the civil society: linked to this society by certain duties and subject to its authority, they participate with equality has its advantages."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
French text (about "natural" born citizens): "Les naturels, ou indigenes, sont ceux qui sont nes dans le pays, de parens citoyens"
-------------------
To English, gives this: "the natural, or indigenous, are those born in the country, parents who are citizens"

A detailed, historical, etymology of the term "Natural Born Citizen" can be found here: http://www.greschak.com/essays/natborn/index.htm

Prior to the Constitution

"This 1758 work by Swiss legal philosopher Emmerich de Vattel is of special importance to scholars of constitutional history and law, for it was read by many of the Founders of the United States of America, and informed their understanding of the principles of law which became established in the Constitution of 1787. Chitty's notes and the appended commentaries by Edward D. Ingraham, used in lectures at William and Mary College, provide a valuable perspective on Vattel's exposition from the viewpoint of American jurists who had adapted those principles to the American legal experience."

Vattel's Law of Nations, built upon "natural law - which has it's roots in ancient Greece, was influenced by Leibniz.
Even Blackstone affirmed the basis of natural law:
"This law of nature, being co-eval with mankind and dictated by God himself, is of course superior in obligation to any other. It is binding over all the globe, in all countries, and at all times: no human laws are of any validity, if contrary to this; and such of them as are valid derive all their force, and all their authority, mediately or immediately, from this original” (1979, 41). In this passage, Blackstone articulates the two claims that constitute the theoretical core of conceptual naturalism: 1) there can be no legally valid standards that conflict with the natural law; and 2) all valid laws derive what force and authority they have from the natural law."

Thomas Jefferson (for one example) had the 1758 version as well as a 1775 version in his own library:
Thomas Jefferson's Library: A Catalog with the Entries in His Own Order (under a section he titled "Ethics. Law of Nature and Nations."

In AUTOBIOGRAPHY by Thomas Jefferson, he states: "On the 1st of June 1779. I was appointed Governor of the Commonwealth and retired from the legislature. Being elected also one of the Visitors of Wm. & Mary college, a self-electing body, I effected, during my residence in Williamsburg that year, a change in the organization of that institution by abolishing the Grammar school, and the two professorships of Divinity & Oriental languages, and substituting a professorship of Law & Police, one of Anatomy Medicine and Chemistry, and one of Modern languages; and the charter confining us to six professorships, we added the law of Nature & Nations..." This was 8 years prior the the writing of the Constitution! [See the "Law of Nature & Nations" section of his personal library to get an idea of what he included in this curriculum in America's 1st law school].

Note: Vattel, is one of only 10 "footnotes" in Jefferson's Biography, from Yale.

Prior to Jay's famous letter to those in attendance at the Constitutional Convention, we see (one of many exchanges between the founders) a letter from Madison ("father" of the Constitution) to Jay:

"James Madison, as a member of the Continental Congress in 1780, drafted the instructions sent to John Jay, for negotiating a treaty with Spain, which quotes at length from The Law of Nations. Jay complained that this letter, which was probably read by the Spanish government, was not in code, and "Vattel's Law of Nations, which I found quoted in a letter from Congress, is prohibited here.[29]"
From: Life, Liberty, and The Pursuit of Happiness. How the Natural Law concept of G.W. Leibniz Inspired America's Founding Fathers.

The concepts of "natural law" and the phrase "Laws of Nature" (of which Law of Nations is built upon) are found within the Declaration of Independence itself:

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed
Those (& others) are clearly NOT derived from English law, but rather from natural law concepts (which can be found in Vattel's Law of Nations for ex.).

The Constitution

The concepts of "natural law" continued in the Constitution:

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union

...

Article 1. section 8, clause 10:

"To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations"

Again, those phrases are not from English common law, but rather from natural law and even mention Vattel's book by name, "Law of Nations."

After the Constitution is penned

Founder and Historian David Ramsay Defines a Natural Born Citizen in 1789.
David Ramsay (April 2, 1749 to May 8, 1815) was an American physician, patriot, and historian from South Carolina and a delegate from that state to the Continental Congress in 1782-1783 and 1785-1786. He was the Acting President of the United States in Congress Assembled. He was one of the American Revolution’s first major historians. A contemporary of Washington, Ramsay writes with the knowledge and insights one acquires only by being personally involved in the events of the Founding period.

Ramsay REAFFIRMS the definition a Natural Born Citizen (born in country, to citizen parents (plural)) in 1789 A Dissertation on the Manners of Acquiring the Character and Privileges of a Citizen (1789)

The Naturalization Act of 1790, which states (in relevant part) "that the children of citizens [plural] of the United States that might be born beyond the sea, or out of the limits of the United States, should be considered as natural-born citizens"

Of course, the Act of 1790 was repealed by the Act of 1795 (which did NOT attempt to define or extend the definition for NBC). What the 1st Congress had tried to do in 1790 was to EXTEND the known definition (of born in country to citizen parentS) to those born outside of sovereign territory, to citizen parentS. Of course, they can't do that. Congress (by itself) doesn't have the Constitutional authority to define (or EXTEND) the Constitutional term "Natural Born Citizen." Only a SCOTUS decision on the intent of the framers, or an amendment to the Constitution can do that.

The same definition was referenced in the dicta of many early SCOTUS cases as well...some examples:

"THE VENUS, 12 U.S. (8 Cranch) 253, 289 (1814) (Marshall, C.J. concurring) (cites Vattel’s definition of Natural Born Citizen)
SHANKS V. DUPONT, 28 U.S. 242, 245 (1830) (same definition without citing Vattel)
MINOR V. HAPPERSETT, 88 U.S.162,167-168 ( 1875) (same definition without citing Vattel)
EX PARTE REYNOLDS, 1879, 5 Dill., 394, 402 (same definition and cites Vattel)
UNITED STATES V WARD, 42 F.320 (C.C.S.D. Cal. 1890) (same definition and cites Vattel.)"
http://www.scribd.com/doc/17519578/Kerchner-v-Obama-Congress-DOC-34-Plaintiffs-Brief-Opposing-Defendants-Motion-to-Dismiss

The New Englander, Volume 3 (1845) states: "The expression ‘citizen of the United States occurs in the clauses prescribing qualifications for Representatives, for Senators, and for President. In the latter, the term ‘natural born citizen’ is used and excludes all persons owing allegiance by birth to foreign states."
Note: the "New Englander" was NOT a student law review. The first student law review appeared 30 years later, in 1875/76 at the Albany Law School..

Vattel's definition for "natural born citizen" was read into the Congressional Record after the Civil War.
John Bingham, "father" of the 14th Amendment, the abolitionist congressman from Ohio who prosecuted Lincoln's assassins, REAFFIRMED the definition known to the framers by saying this:

commenting on Section 1992 said it means “every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen.” (Cong. Globe, 39th, 1st Sess., 1291 (1866))"

SCOTUS, in an 1887 case cites Vattel a number of times and reitterates that his work was translated into English in 1760:
"Vattel in his Law of Nations, which was first printed at Neuchatel in 1758, and was translated into English and published in England in 1760" U S v. ARJONA, 120 U.S. 479 (1887)

It's interesting to note that (non binding) Senate Resolution 511, which attempted to proclaim that Sen. John McCain was a "Natural Born Citizen" because he was born to citizen parentS, even they referenced the (repealed) Naturalization Act of 1790: "Whereas such limitations would be inconsistent with the purpose and intent of the `natural born Citizen' clause of the Constitution of the United States, as evidenced by the First Congress's own statute defining the term `natural born Citizen'".
Obama, himself, was a signatory of that resolution knowing full well (no doubt) the requirement has always been about 2 citizen parents.

The point is, with the exception of the repealed Act of 1790 which tried to EXTEND the definition, the meaning of the term "Natural Born Citizen" has ALWAYS been about being born within the sovereign territory or jurisdiction of the U.S. to 2 citizen parents (& therefore parents who do NOT owe allegiance to another, foreign, country).

112 posted on 06/03/2010 11:09:38 AM PDT by rxsid (HOW CAN A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN'S STATUS BE "GOVERNED" BY GREAT BRITAIN? - Leo Donofrio (2009))
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To: DaveyB

“kinda crazy sounding huh?”

Yes, in this case. Just like I’d think it would have been crazy to use the same quote in defense of ignoring Bush at the inception of the Iraq War, for instance, because I think he might have stolen the 2000 election. And maybe he was secretly born overseas. And I don’t like him.

I’d rather die than be a slave, fine. There are some causes worth blood and suffering and chaos. But not just any old cause.


113 posted on 06/03/2010 11:16:12 AM PDT by Tublecane
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To: Tublecane
I’m gonna go out on a limb and say that if you’re going to go ahead and advocate that our armed forces devolve into chaos given that they are led by an illegal tyrant, then we ought to be a little more certain whether the commander in chief’s authority is, in fact, illegal.


114 posted on 06/03/2010 11:21:12 AM PDT by DaveyB (Alcohol ,Tobacco and Firearms should be a convenience store not a bureaucracy!)
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To: DaveyB
correction - illegible should read ineligible

sorry, I was public school educated.

115 posted on 06/03/2010 11:27:02 AM PDT by DaveyB (Alcohol ,Tobacco and Firearms should be a convenience store not a bureaucracy!)
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To: SnakeDoctor
"Junior officers are also not permitted to independently determine the legality of orders"


I grew up believing the Nuremberg trials was an important trial to avoid tyranny now you are saying I am mistaken?
Now I am to believe the Nuremberg trials were a farce.

Those following orders had no choice. I am in complete aww over this issue.

116 posted on 06/03/2010 11:31:00 AM PDT by Steve Van Doorn (*in my best Eric cartman voice* 'I love you guys')
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To: SnakeDoctor
There is a case during the Clinton administration were a British officer did not follow orders. The British high command did not choose to prosecute him.
Lt.General Michael Jackson stated his reasons for not following orders and did not retake the Kosovo Airport during the war in Kosovo.
117 posted on 06/03/2010 11:38:05 AM PDT by Steve Van Doorn (*in my best Eric cartman voice* 'I love you guys')
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To: Steve Van Doorn

Nuremburg said that individuals had the duty to disobey orders of a certain level of immorality ... it did not say there would be no consequences to such insubordination.

Even if the LTC is doing his duty under Nuremburg (which is a stretch), he can still be punished in accordance with military regulations.

As all soldiers do, he has two choices — (1) obey orders and avoid punishment, or (2) disobey orders and accept the punishment that is given. The military cannot allow him to disobey orders and simply walk away unscathed without sacrificing military order.

SnakeDoc


118 posted on 06/03/2010 11:53:23 AM PDT by SnakeDoctor ("Shut it down" ... 00:00:03 ... 00:00:02 ... 00:00:01 ... 00:00:00.)
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To: Steve Van Doorn

I remember a British story were the SAS were ordered to leave some men behind ... they disobeyed orders and undertook a rescue. They were also prepared to tender their resignation and accept punishment for insubordination — but the British government opted to admit fault to save face, and not to prosecute. What are the odds that Obama’s going to do that?

SnakeDoc


119 posted on 06/03/2010 11:58:07 AM PDT by SnakeDoctor ("Shut it down" ... 00:00:03 ... 00:00:02 ... 00:00:01 ... 00:00:00.)
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To: Tublecane
"just any old cause" in this case happens to be the supreme law of the land.

Do we follow the constitution or not?

120 posted on 06/03/2010 11:59:13 AM PDT by Steve Van Doorn (*in my best Eric cartman voice* 'I love you guys')
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