Posted on 05/30/2010 4:41:07 PM PDT by JoeProBono
ORLANDO, Fla.- Parents of a home-schooled 13-year-old Florida girl say they are filing a complaint because she's being denied entry to college because of her age.
The retired engineer parents of Anastasia "Annie" Megan say they have gone as far as they can go in educating their daughter. She's almost completed her high school education and they've applied for Annie to take dual-enrollment classes at Lake-Sumter Community College in Leesburg, Florida, but they've been turned down by college officials, who say she's not ready to be in classes with older students, the Orlando Sentinel reported Sunday.
The parents have filed an age-discrimination complaint with the U.S. Department of Education's Office for Civil Rights against the college.
"If she meets all the qualifications but for her age, then why not let her in?" asked her mother, Louise Racine. "What's the worst that can happen, honestly? If a child does pass these tests, don't you think they should be allowed to continue their education to the next level and continue to let their minds grow?"
Although college President Charles Mojock would not comment specifically, the Sentinel said, he talked about the freedom of the college environment.
"Anyone basically can walk onto our campus," Mojock said. "So we've got a very different environment (than a high school). … And we have many adult students having adult conversations on adult topics and that may or may not be suitable for some young students."
"It's a shame to see the (college) administration taking the go-slow approach to a bright student who wants to continue to learn," Annie's father John Megan said.
You’re not the only one who thinks that way.
Hogwash. There's a difference between attending classes at a local campus and packing her off to live in a different state.
I wouldn't do that either, for a 13-14 year old girl without the supervision that I see another mother did with her children. With that kind of specific supervision -- that would be the only way I would ever let that girl go into that environment ...
See Post #125 ...
Ummm... another mind-reader?
Several points.
A) You aren’t a Christian.
B) You know nothing of home schoolers.
C) As I pointed out, you are obsessed with young girls having sex with older guys. That is your one and only objection to home schooled children attending college at a young age.
For the final time.....you disgust me, and you have serious sexual issues. I suggest therapy.
One final note: You’d never, ever talk to me this way in person.....but I somehow think you know that.
Several points.
A) You aren’t a Christian.
Ummmm.... you're mind-reading again ... :-)
B) You know nothing of home schoolers.
I didn't realize that the subject was that complex or "rocket science" ...
C) As I pointed out, you are obsessed with young girls having sex with older guys. That is your one and only objection to home schooled children attending college at a young age.
As I pointed out up above, I wouldn't send any young girl of 13-14 years old -- homeschooled or not homeschooled -- into that environment unsupervised, unless it was handled like that mother did that I commented on in Post #125 ...
And it's a "duh" ... ya know ... put a young girl into an environment like that with a bunch of older guys around, unsupervised -- and it doesn't take someone with a high IQ to figure out what's gonna happen with our culture and in that environment.
Someone would have to be an idiot to do that...
One final note: You’d never, ever talk to me this way in person.....but I somehow think you know that.
Well, fortunately for me, I don't associate with people who can't figure these kinds of things out ... :-)
Well, I suppose if the parents have enough sense to raise a 13 yr old, who’s knocked out all her HS requirements, they’re not going to start being stupid now.
Hopefully so ... I just hope those parents don’t start “buying into” the idea that their kid of that age of 13-14 years old is socially equipped and “as advanced” as those older college students of 18-24 years old — and able to handle their own, in that kind of environment. I sense that some think that those young kids of 13-14 years old could actually do that on their own.
So, yes, I do hope that all of those same parents are as smart as they can be ... in this matter.
My turn to LOL....my home schooled daughters could kick your butt. Why are you even on this forum? Get lost.
Ahhh... so that’s how you’ve taught your daughters about free speech in this country ... eh? Don’t like what you hear ... just kick their butts ... LOL ...
Interesting explanation to the founding fathers’ philosophy ... :-)
I've got extended family members where they have kids in private Christian school, and let me tell you (unfortunately) that even in private Christian schools some of the prevalent culture's attitudes with girls and guys carries over even into that environment. It would be by way of peer group interaction and not so much by way of teaching curriculum, of course.
In many Christian circles, there's what is referred to as an "upper story/lower story" existence for Christians (something that I heard from Francis Schaeffer). It's that one carries on in the current culture as is normal for anyone and everyone and then on Sunday (or your weekly Bible study meetings) you then go into your "upper story" mode ... (and may the two never meet ... :-) ...).
Well, the Christian kids in those private Christian schools are sort of like that, too. There's one in particular that I'm thinking of right now, that I know what's going on from the "inside" and I hear what's happening from the parent's viewpoint (of which they are on the "outside"). I hear about the "inside scoop" from another relative, who is about six years older than this gal in Christian school, who talks to her a lot on the computer.
So, she gets "hooked up" with this guy when she's just 15 and they're engaging in an intimate relationship, in spite of the parents' attitudes (which are against it, if they knew...). Now, the boy is a bit older and now he's in Afghanistan, joined not too long ago and was just shipped out recently. But before he left, she ended up spending a week with him at the boy's parents' house. Hoo-boy! That's just dumb. Of course the parents of both knew that, but I'm not sure what they thought was going on, "really". But, I already know from what I've gotten from my other relative who stays in contact with this young girl.
They're not "distant relatives" and so I know a lot of what is going on. She was not homeschooled but her parents are what you would consider conservative and the dad is what anyone else would consider "right wing". There's nothing liberal there and they're sending their daughter to a private Christian school and yet this is going on.
Now, the funny thing (and as is probably familiar with some in their own extended families) sometimes there are those in your family that you wouldn't want your kids to associate with very much. Well, this older girl that I'm getting the "inside scoop" from about the younger girl (the one who are fairly close relatives to me and they are Christian parents) -- they don't necessarily want their daughter to associate with this older girl (as I said, about six years older) as they consider her a bit wild (and I would agree, too). But, their daughter (if they only knew) only manages to keep some of the same stuff hidden from her parents, even though she goes to the private Christian school.
I'm sure you can have the same story repeated a thousand times over again with different families. What I find out a lot, is that the parents actually don't really realize what their kids are involved in and how they think, because they're pretty good at disguising and hiding these things from their parents. I have seen this a lot. I hear these kinds of stories over and over again (friends or relatives or co-workers...).
If parents only knew the half of what goes on with their kids ... and that's why I would never put this younger girl in that kind of university environment at that age.
When those who are in the Body of Christ allow sin to fester, unexposed, kept hidden from those who have been sinned against, one has allowed that sin to affect the whole Body of believers. As it stands now, reproach has come to the name of the Savior I identify with and now it has just become a source of gossip, cleverly disguised in a debate about homeschooling and college.
It’s the status of what is going on in our society... and that’s something that people should be made aware of. Parents shouldn’t be kidded or fooled and others shouldn’t think that simply the outward manifestation of potentially good decisions (like sending a kid to Christian school) is actually all it takes. It takes much more.
As far as anyone knowing anyone mentioned ... there’s no way for anyone to associate it with any person. It’s information about our culture and the manner in which it has infiltrated the Christian community as well as the world.
It's to be expected. After all, all it takes is a TV or an internet connection. With girls you got to be on them constantly. The trick is for them to be wise to only a limited amount of the total surveillance.
"As far as anyone knowing anyone mentioned ... there’s no way for anyone to associate it with any person."
You know the mentioned and what's going on, my sibling in Christ. Now, go do the right thing and help purge the sin from the Body, in love, and help make restoration possible.
And then let's not air our dirty laundry, resulting from our struggles with sin, in front of the world who is watching, and waiting, to pounce on the name of Christ. For we know that they will make up things that are NOT true to tarnish Him, so let's not help them.:-)
You know the mentioned and what's going on, my sibling in Christ. Now, go do the right thing and help purge the sin from the Body, in love, and help make restoration possible.
Sure I know... but I'll guarantee you... there's no way on earth I'm getting in the middle of that one. For one thing, you don't get in the middle of parents and their kids. Most of the time, they'll tell you to get lost and don't bother them, and if they do believe you, they'll end up blaming you and not even dealing with the kid.
I've already had my share of trying to help some others in ways that you think would be beneificial (and I'm talking "informational") to only get slapped down for being "the messenger".
And I'm one who is more than likely to do something like that, anyway and inform people (and have in different ways with different kinds of things, too), but I've been around way too long now and know much better than to do that.
Nope... I'm not going to do that, at all.
I'll let you in on one that caused literal havoc in the family (again, the extended family) when I notified the parents of some molestation that went on with their kid (not from the immediate family, but someone outside), when I found out about it. No..., you do not want to be the messenger in that one, either. I ended up being the bad guy in that one, and the husband and wife broke up over that one, and the daughter was messed up for a long time afterwards, too (still is, actually).
I was literally told -- by all parties involved, that I should have never told them (I'm talking about the parents telling me that, too) and that since I found out about it, I should have kept quiet, and left it alone.
Sorry... but people don't react very well to those situations... I pick carefully what I'll "get into" in those types of situations. However, I will say that I would have done that particular one again, no matter what, because that one was important enough to let the parents know, even though they both, still to this day, wish I had never told them.
As far as this other family (and relative) ... no way ... I'm not telling them what to do with their kid ... they're on their own on that one ...
And then let's not air our dirty laundry, resulting from our struggles with sin, in front of the world who is watching, and waiting, to pounce on the name of Christ.
I'm sorry, I don't believe that one at all. Jesus, the Messiah of Israel is not "tarnished" because of the sin of different individuals. That's on their own shoulders.
It should be known what is going on in Christian circles -- no matter what.
I don't believe in naming names or identifying individuals, not at all. So, there's no way I would do that, as that's not my job to do so. But, identifying that "such things" do go on and are going on in Christian circles -- yes, people should know about it -- "in general" so that they, themselves, can be made aware of it, for themselves and their own families. It's something that people "should be on top of". It's a big warning to many families ... beware ...
So ... no ... no secrets in that regard. Make it known, sure ... but I'm not about to embarrass any family or individual.
God will take care of it in His own way and I'm not going to get in the way of that, either ...
Four, five, six years... The amount of time has nothing to do with whether or not a college student is serious. Everyone I know who took a longer amount of time did so due to financial reasons. Most of us took the community college route to university to save money. It was the sensible thing to do. And, in the five-year work co-op program I mentioned that is offered by universities, students gained experience in their field of study; they were serious students, offered jobs by those companies upon graduation.
OTOH, there are serious students who go right into a four-year university, only to drop out for financial reasons. So, the decision should be made based on a student's financial circumstances.
At the university level, pretty much all your courses were transferable from one university to the next. But, if you went to a Community College, you might find that those courses were not as easily transferable, as the ones at the university level. I wouldn’t go to a Community College back then, because it would have slowed me down (wouldn’t get credit for all courses) and would not have been as good courses
You'd have to plan well and find out first which credits the university will accept. Most of my credits were transferable, and I didn't even take the transferable track. TODAY, the community colleges around here have close relationships with universities. You can even earn a four-year degree from certain universities on the campuses of some community colleges. The universities send their professors to teach the courses on the CC campus, and students are guided to take two years of certain CC courses in order to transfer right there to the university level courses.
I’m not talking about just taking a few courses here and there, but being serious about the university work and getting it done just like any other regular university student.
Remember, we're talking about a 13yo student. Maybe her parents plan to put her into CC full-time. But, my point was that she wouldn't need to attend full-time, if there was concern about her safety and security. In starting college at age 13, she would have plenty of time to spend taking courses at her leisure, while still enjoying the life a typical 13yo girl might lead.
I'm going to be attending a free seminar offered by a college recruiter who will offer advice specifically for homeschoolers. And, guess what the first piece of advice is: She advises homeschooled students to take dual-credit courses at CC while they're high school age. It's what many homeschooled students around here do. Some might have their degrees by age 18, but it's not necessary to rush through when you're starting so early.
And talking about Community Colleges, I would say that is for those who want to “bootstrap” their way into university level work and don’t feel like they can meet up to university level work, right off the bat. And I suppose there are many like that, but that’s not the way I did it or many others in the thousands that were going at the same time I was going to the universities
Here's a secret I learned: There isn't a dime's worth of difference between the courses at a community college and the same courses at a university. There was no difference between the professors at CC versus the university.
I earned mostly A's at the CC, and, at the university, I was the only A-student in some of my classes. (I was paying full-price, so I took it seriously.) ;-) The professors themselves told me I was their only A-student. One professor told the whole class. One day, in that same class, the other students started talking about CC students and how "stupid" they were. The professor was laughing along with them. It was amusing because they had no idea I'd transferred from CC. Personally, I thought they were gullible for paying the higher university tuition the first two years. ;-)
One guy I knew was the son of a widow, so he had to work his way through college, like so many of us did. He started at community college, transferred into a university's work co-op program (and commuted to the university), and upon graduation was hired immediately as an aerospace engineer at around age 23. He soon earned his masters. Do you really believe someone who fits that description is not a "serious" student? IMHO, that type of student is far more serious than the type who is there partying half the time. :-)
Four, five, six years... The amount of time has nothing to do with whether or not a college student is serious.
Well, to me it would be unless something serious interferes with their progress for some reason. Maybe a serious illness gets in the way, or yes..., it would be a "serious problem" if money wasn't available. But, then I would wonder why they were going to the university in the first place, then.
But, here is where being serious counts. Every year that person delays finishing their degree education, that's one year they lose off their earning capacity and capability. It's one year cut short off their maximum earning potential for their potential future wife or husband and/or the family that they will raise. That all costs money and things that cut short the total earning capability (let's say, taking three years longer in university -- that is three years removed from the back end of their earning career, when they're at the highest earning potential having taken that long to advance to that level, over their entire career).
Some people who have looked at this -- have said, just taking 'four years off your working career" for a university education is hard enough to make up for anyway, sometimes. Just think how much more difficult it would be to make up if you lose 7 years from your working career and advancement, because the student decided to be somewhat lackadaisical in pursuing the degree and finishing.
Of course, I'm talking about students here, who are starting their working careers by first getting that degree education and then stepping into some career that will support them and their families from then on, even if they change and/or advance into other areas, as they go along in their careers.
I say that to distinguish from those who are not going for a degree education in the first place and/or may simply be keeping up some educational requirements at work and they only take a classs here and there. And also, there are those who just take a class here and there for fun and for personal advancement and nothing much more than that. Those are not the people I'm talking about.
But, don't get me wrong about Community College, though. I think it's great and it's also a fine alternative for those who perhaps want something akin to a "trade degree"... (not exactly that, but similar). You just take a few courses for two years, get a certificate of completion for that and/or some short "program" they offer and it puts you into some jobs with certain "skills" that put you slightly ahead of some other coming into the job market without that training and/or skills. And Community College would be great for that kind of thing.
Also, Community College is great for those fun and interesting courses and a lot of people do take those course there for that. I've done that, too... in my later years and have had fun with such courses. There was one course at a Community College that I took which was Sign Language. Now, that was fun and interesting, although I already knew it. But, in this instance, I got to see what it was like, learning it from an educational viewpoint, instead of a experiential viewpoint. And that was "educational" all by itself ... :-)
So, Community College does serve its purpose and that's fine as far as it goes.
You'd have to plan well and find out first which credits the university will accept.
[ ... ]
TODAY, the community colleges around here have close relationships with universities.
You're right about planning ahead and it can be difficult. I remember that option was mentioned (as educators counsel studens when they are considering their options for what they want to do, before they get into a university education) -- and upon looking at it, I saw all sorts of pitfalls in that one.
For example..., you're right when you say that Community Colleges and Universities have a close relationship... they did back then, too..., when I was looking at it. But, what you'll find is that extends usually only within your own state. There will be things that will be given full credit or half-credit from the Community College upon transfering to a university in the state -- but -- there will be no credit if you decided to transfer to a university in another state -- perhaps one that is better suited to your major and would be preferable in graduating from there, for your future career. That's a problem that you could run into.
And from the standpoint of your educational portfolio, it's much better to have a full university education, from beginning to end, when you're competing against others, in the job market, who will have that. Depending on how important that particular education you have is for that job -- it could make all the difference in the world.
But, if you're talking about it making a difference for being a "car salesman" ... LOL ... no, it won't make a difference at all ... :-) ...
Remember, we're talking about a 13yo student. Maybe her parents plan to put her into CC full-time.
Yes, I understand that's the subject of the thread, and I don't think it's a wise idea for her to be in a university education setting at this time (aside for a couple of classes maybe here and there, and supervised right "on-site" by the mother, as I noted was the only way I would do it, per Post #125 ...
BUT, what I'm "taking off on" here -- is -- what some others have referred to as the homeschooled kids' ability to be as capable and socially aware and as functional as adults, being far beyond her actual years, because of being homeschool. In other words, she is supposed to be "as capable" if not more so, in the social skills and being able to even act and think and behave like an adult -- perhaps even surpassing those 18-24 year olds in college right then, who come from public education backgrounds.
And to go further "down that line of thinking" (as I've heard here) -- it was said that this gives homeschooled kids a "head start" over those others in public schools, in getting going in their own futures and careers, because they are so much more capable. (I don't think so, in that way..., but just saying what I've seen here ...).
Therefore, if that homeschooled girl of 13-14 years old is so much more capable and socially adept, and the equivalent of those older college students and being able to interact like "an adult" and make "adult decisions" (because of her background and training in homeschooling) -- then it makes sense that this would give her a "tremendous head start" in her career and being very successful.
HOWEVER, that's only true if that 13-14 year old actually does pursue that four-year degree program (and/or continues with masters and doctorate, if required for that career; if not, then continues into the job market and her career).
I mean, if she takes just a few courses, here and there, is monitored by the parents (like I mentioned above, and ends up taking a sum total of let's say about 7 years or perhaps 8 years to finally finish -- she's lost her advantage of "timing" and being that much further ahead of those others who are graduating normally from the university coming out of the public education sphere.
In other words, her "advanced capabilities" and "socially adept" skills are useful -- if -- she pursues that university education full-speed ahead and ends up being four years ahead of everyone else, when she finishes. Then she's got a tremendous advantage of having four more earning years at the highest level of earnings as she advances through her long career, even if it's interrupted for kids. And, in fact, this "advanced start" could help her a lot, if she has kids, because then when she "takes a break" for those kids, then she can be back into the job market and not be way behind, because of how fast she advanced earlier.
BUT, if all that happens with the "advanced capabilities" of homeschooled kids of 13-14 years old, is that they end up finishing at the same time as everyone else -- well..., they don't "gain the advantage" in the job market by gaining those four years of extra time in their working career. They may gain the advantage by being more responsible and being more capable of doing a better job than others -- but not in more time for earning capacity.
That's one thing that I heard from some comment here, in that they would get a "head start" in that sense. But not unless they "go at it full time" -- when they have that advantage.
In starting college at age 13, she would have plenty of time to spend taking courses at her leisure, while still enjoying the life a typical 13yo girl might lead.
Well, that's what I would say. I would say forget about the "head start" she has, as she's not really fully capable of handling mixing in with those 18-24 year olds in a university setting. Let her "be the kid she really is" and not the adult that some seem to think she is ... :-)
She needs time to be a kid and play around with other kids her own age. And then when she "grows up" -- she can go to the university full time ...
Here's a secret I learned: There isn't a dime's worth of difference between the courses at a community college and the same courses at a university. There was no difference between the professors at CC versus the university.
There's a completely different focus of the Community College to the University setting. It probably can be summed up by saying "theoretical" to the "practical/everyday".
The Community College is the "practical/everyday" stuff. You get some hands-on things that are directly applicable to immediate things on the job and in the job market. They are usually related to certain job skills and/or things that can be more immediately practical in the everyday world.
Now, the University education is more theoretical and will involve an education that seems to be more philosophical and more "long-range" and it's more capable of giving you something that you'll use in the long run and will advance that perhaps to higher levels of achievement in their careers.
In Community College, you may learn about some database program on a computer and have a computer science education to go along with that and learn some practical things about computers that will translate to something useful almost immediately on the job, right at the moment you finish off two years.
With a Community College education, you may end up being a supervisor in the company you're in, over some computer department and division. With a university education, you may end up being a Vice President, and assistant to the President of the company over the entire Computer/IT division.
That's just an example of how I would distinguish the two. Not everyone is meant to be the Vice President and many more are going to be supervisors ... so the Community College system is important for businesses, too ...
Do you really believe someone who fits that description is not a "serious" student? IMHO, that type of student is far more serious than the type who is there partying half the time. :-)
Given the cost differences between the university education and the Community College one... I would say that those in the university can't afford to party too much ... LOL ...
There's much more money left over to "party" at the Community College level ... :-)
But, aside from that, I don't see any reason why one environment would product more "partiers" than the other. As far as "being serious" -- I'm talking about future earning potential and job advancement capabilities and also -- being serious in not taking too much "time" in taking courses, so that you take twice as long as how it can be done -- thus cutting short your entire working career by about four years (perhaps) and losing all that earning potential.
You've got it backwards. When I was young, I took classes at a community college and went to parties in university dorms. No one stays on campus at a CC, so there are no parties there. :-) A university works much like a complete community. CC is just a place to take classes and then leave for the day.
The Community College is the "practical/everyday" stuff. You get some hands-on things that are directly applicable to immediate things on the job and in the job market. They are usually related to certain job skills and/or things that can be more immediately practical in the everyday world.
That depends on the program of study you take. There are programs of study that prepare the student to enter the workforce directly upon completion. (I found that type of degree to be worthless for me, so we agree there.) But, there are other programs of study that prepare the student to transfer to a university. Essentially, you are taking the same university-level courses for a much lower tuition.
from the standpoint of your educational portfolio, it's much better to have a full university education, from beginning to end, when you're competing against others, in the job market, who will have that.
You wouldn't even have to mention CC on your resume. See the example I gave in my last post. You'd only have to list the university that gave you your degree.
Every year that person delays finishing their degree education, that's one year they lose off their earning capacity and capability. It's one year cut short off their maximum earning potential for their potential future wife or husband and/or the family that they will raise.
Again, in the examples I gave, those students would go broke if they attended a university for all of their classes the entire four years. They would never complete their education, and the debt collectors would be chasing them. So, attending university for the entire four years is not an option for them.
And, in the university work co-op programs, the student is paid to work in his/her field of study. Then he or she has a great reference upon graduation.
some others have referred to as the homeschooled kids' ability to be as capable and socially aware and as functional as adults, being far beyond her actual years, because of being homeschool. In other words, she is supposed to be "as capable" if not more so, in the social skills and being able to even act and think and behave like an adult -- perhaps even surpassing those 18-24 year olds in college right then, who come from public education backgrounds.
I happen to have come across homeschooled students who would walk all over those college students and be able to handle that environment very well at age 13 or 14. This young girl might be the same. But, for the record, I myself have never made broadbrush statements about all homeschoolers. If you were to search through my posts, you'd find me saying that each homeschooled student is different.
Also, as I mentioned before, there are school students taking dual credit courses at CC, too, while they're in high school. It's not all that unusual.
Try to take a step back and look at the picture from another direction: A homeschooled teen has nothing to lose and everything to gain by taking CC courses. Even if the credits weren't transferable, at least the student would have something official on record showing what that student has learned. In other words, homeschooled students often use CC courses as their high school courses. The plus is that they can and do receive college credit for them, too.
You've got it backwards. When I was young, I took classes at a community college and went to parties in university dorms. No one stays on campus at a CC, so there are no parties there. :-) A university works much like a complete community. CC is just a place to take classes and then leave for the day.
I would have to look back up a few posts -- but I believe the point that I was making (and how we got on this at all, in the first place) is that "this is the environment and sub-culture of these 18-24 year olds" ... you see ... :-) ... regardless of whether at Community College, City University or College Town ...
As I said, I was at a commuter college myself, that being Portland State University. And it's right in the downtown section of Portland. It's kind of hard to tell what is campus and what is not. And there are all sorts of residence facilities all over the place and right next door to it and right on the campus, too. But, a lot of students commuted from their own apartments or houses, wherever they were in the city.
It's not like students are "partying" inside the classrooms on campus, if that's what you mean by "on campus". I mean, even the "college town" of Corvallis, where Oregon State University is, you didn't have parties inside the actual university facilities, but you could have something going on at someone's apartment that might be right adjacent to campus. In fact, that was most of it anyway, even if you lived on campus, you couldn't get a big party going inside a dorm, you couldn't get a big party going inside a co-op, and so you would go off-campus for those parties.
Now, that being the case, it doesn't make any difference whether you're talking about a community college or a city university where people are commuting or you're talking about a college town where a great number of students live right on campus inside co-ops, residence housing or dorms. It's all the same when it comes to the partying, as those students go to where the parties are ... you see ... :-)
Now, the community college that I can reference personally is Portland Community College and they have several campuses. And there is always housing surrounding the campus. And what you'll find is that there will be students around that college, too, plus those who commute from around the city.
And all of those facilities (I'll mention the ones that I'm referencing here again), like Portland Community College, Portland State University and Oregon State Univesity -- they will all shut down and be locked up tighter than a drum at night and on weekends, except for maybe a couple of classrooms (for some evening courses, if they have them, or the university library.
There's no partying in those facilities. They're always locked up. The partying goes on in someone's house, or in someone's apartment -- or if it's smaller and a quieter affair, then perhaps in someone's dorm room (but you're not going to have a raucus party in there (because they do have supervision there and they do shut down those types of things). And you're not going to have raucus parties in the co-ops either, because they'll have "house mothers" there onsite and they'll shut you down in short order, too ... LOL ...
Again, the partying does go on, it is at all of those facilities (no matter Community College, City University or College town) -- because it's "in the culture" and the "the environment" of the 18-24 year olds who are going to these facilities.
BUT, to bring it back to the point of the 13-14 year old girl who was to go to university level classes -- that's the "environment" and "culture" that she would be exposed to and be influenced by -- and it will have an effect -- unless -- there is direct and immediate supervision by someone who knows her and they end up dropping her off, waiting for her and immediately picking her up after every class or lab or library session.
And, as I was saying before, if that 13-14 year old girl only takes a few course here and there -- well..., she'll be "caught up in age" with the other students, in a few years and then she'll be "age appropriate" -- at that point in time to be able to take a full load of classes.
I would just let her be a 13-14 year old girl and play around with her age-appropriate friends, in the meantime, until she catches up and is "age-appropriate" for the university level culture that she'll be dumped right into. And in the meantime, until she gets there, while she is playing around with her friends of her own age, she can be supervised directly for a few courses here and there (as I was pointing out in Post #125 ...).
That depends on the program of study you take. There are programs of study that prepare the student to enter the workforce directly upon completion. (I found that type of degree to be worthless for me, so we agree there.) But, there are other programs of study that prepare the student to transfer to a university. Essentially, you are taking the same university-level courses for a much lower tuition.
Well, I see here, that we've ventured off into the merits of a Community College education and classes versus a university ... :-)
And for that, I would just say that there are good reasons why some people go to specific universities for their four-year degrees -- which they figure will help them in their future careers. And there are good reasons for staying away from Community Colleges for some of those future plans, too.
But, that would be something that would be specific to the future plans for a specific person. For a whole lot of things, in the normal job market, it wouldn't make any difference. And for those people, it would be okay to go to a Community College and transfer up to a University. Heck! For a lot of them, it would be okay just to go two years and get that certificate and be done with it and get into the job market.
Since I see the usefulness of Community Colleges for the general community that they are in, and it does offer very practical classes -- I don't have any complaints against them. I've taken some courses there in my later years, too. And I thought it was great. I mean, I took some dancing classes at Portland Community College and that was fun ... so yeah, people can have fun at Community Colleges ... :-)
You wouldn't even have to mention CC on your resume. See the example I gave in my last post. You'd only have to list the university that gave you your degree.
Now that depends entirely on the field of work you're getting into. If you're talking about a "normal work-a-day job" -- sure, it probably wouldn't make any difference and you wouldn't have to mention too much more than the graduating school.
But, if you're talking about working at some research institution and/or being a brain surgeon or heart specialist, or getting involved in some of the advanced sciences, or working at a NASA facility being in charge of some space program and/or planning on advancing up to be Vice President in charge of a division or even CEO someday -- nope... I would stay as far away from Community College as possible ... LOL ...
And in some of those things, each of your classes will be checked and they'll be seeing what courses you took and what grades you got for each one.
BUT, then again, you could be like Bill Gates, just quit school, hype some program and bamboozle IBM, and then bootstrap your compnay into taking over a entire sector of an industry ... :-)
Again, in the examples I gave, those students would go broke if they attended a university for all of their classes the entire four years. They would never complete their education, and the debt collectors would be chasing them. So, attending university for the entire four years is not an option for them.
And some people just arent meant to take advantage of that kind of education. If they're one of them, then that's fine. They just have to get by whatever way they can. Not everyone can be at the top... there's always got to be more Indians than Chiefs ... :-)
I happen to have come across homeschooled students who would walk all over those college students and be able to handle that environment very well at age 13 or 14. This young girl might be the same. But, for the record, I myself have never made broadbrush statements about all homeschoolers. If you were to search through my posts, you'd find me saying that each homeschooled student is different.
And I've spoken in the "aggregate" too.... not for one specific individual.
BUT, you see, even though we can't speak specifically for just one individual, we can speak about what is not wise to do and what is wise to do for a group of individuals, as we do see the results that happen to groups of individuals.
I find that many will say that there is one particular individual that they know "doesn't have this problem" or "was able to do this" -- which would be contrary to what is being presented "as a group" for a whole cross-section of individuals.
And yes, one particular individual could very well depart from the "general rule" for a larger group. That's a given in just about anything.
Let's say that we're talking about getting addicted to drugs. And you're told to not experiment around with heroin and cocaine and other drugs like that, because that will ruin people's lives, if they start experimenting around with them. Someone is going to come back and say that they know someone who did experiment around, and nothing happened to them and they happen to be the most successful person they know and that they have a wonderful family, their kids are great and so on and so forth.
Well, the point is "not" -- whether someone can find one particular example that breaks from the general rule -- but rather -- what is the wise and prudent thing to do.
And so, that's why I say that I would never send a 13-14 year old girl into a university environment to finish her education (not talking about a situation like I was talking about in Post #125 ...).
"As a group", and homeschooled or not, that would be the stupidest decision in the world to send that 13-14 year old girl into that environment and expect her to hold her own. While you may find a few here and there that may do okay, as a group, it would be a disaster. And that's what we talk about when we say something is stupid or is a wise decision. It's not that "we can beat the odds" and do stupid things and "come out okay". That's not the aim for "making good decisions".
It's not that we say to others, "I know that, as a group, if we run red lights all the time, we will end up in a bad wreck, but I can do it so much better than anyone else, so I can get by and do it anyway, since I'm more capable of running red lights." That kind of thinking is plain stupid.
That would be similar to sending that 13-14 year old girl into a university environment and sub-culture of 18-24 year olds, like that and finishing off with her university education and getting her four-year degree, at that point in time (again, not talking about Post #125 ... which I agree with ...) -- and saying "She'll do just fine!"
Try to take a step back and look at the picture from another direction: A homeschooled teen has nothing to lose and everything to gain by taking CC courses.
I already agreed with the mother who said how she did it, with a few courses and with her kids. That's not the situation I'm talking about, you see...
See my Post #125 for my agreement on that limited involvement, with only a few course -- and -- with direct and immediate supervision.
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