Four, five, six years... The amount of time has nothing to do with whether or not a college student is serious. Everyone I know who took a longer amount of time did so due to financial reasons. Most of us took the community college route to university to save money. It was the sensible thing to do. And, in the five-year work co-op program I mentioned that is offered by universities, students gained experience in their field of study; they were serious students, offered jobs by those companies upon graduation.
OTOH, there are serious students who go right into a four-year university, only to drop out for financial reasons. So, the decision should be made based on a student's financial circumstances.
At the university level, pretty much all your courses were transferable from one university to the next. But, if you went to a Community College, you might find that those courses were not as easily transferable, as the ones at the university level. I wouldn’t go to a Community College back then, because it would have slowed me down (wouldn’t get credit for all courses) and would not have been as good courses
You'd have to plan well and find out first which credits the university will accept. Most of my credits were transferable, and I didn't even take the transferable track. TODAY, the community colleges around here have close relationships with universities. You can even earn a four-year degree from certain universities on the campuses of some community colleges. The universities send their professors to teach the courses on the CC campus, and students are guided to take two years of certain CC courses in order to transfer right there to the university level courses.
I’m not talking about just taking a few courses here and there, but being serious about the university work and getting it done just like any other regular university student.
Remember, we're talking about a 13yo student. Maybe her parents plan to put her into CC full-time. But, my point was that she wouldn't need to attend full-time, if there was concern about her safety and security. In starting college at age 13, she would have plenty of time to spend taking courses at her leisure, while still enjoying the life a typical 13yo girl might lead.
I'm going to be attending a free seminar offered by a college recruiter who will offer advice specifically for homeschoolers. And, guess what the first piece of advice is: She advises homeschooled students to take dual-credit courses at CC while they're high school age. It's what many homeschooled students around here do. Some might have their degrees by age 18, but it's not necessary to rush through when you're starting so early.
And talking about Community Colleges, I would say that is for those who want to “bootstrap” their way into university level work and don’t feel like they can meet up to university level work, right off the bat. And I suppose there are many like that, but that’s not the way I did it or many others in the thousands that were going at the same time I was going to the universities
Here's a secret I learned: There isn't a dime's worth of difference between the courses at a community college and the same courses at a university. There was no difference between the professors at CC versus the university.
I earned mostly A's at the CC, and, at the university, I was the only A-student in some of my classes. (I was paying full-price, so I took it seriously.) ;-) The professors themselves told me I was their only A-student. One professor told the whole class. One day, in that same class, the other students started talking about CC students and how "stupid" they were. The professor was laughing along with them. It was amusing because they had no idea I'd transferred from CC. Personally, I thought they were gullible for paying the higher university tuition the first two years. ;-)
One guy I knew was the son of a widow, so he had to work his way through college, like so many of us did. He started at community college, transferred into a university's work co-op program (and commuted to the university), and upon graduation was hired immediately as an aerospace engineer at around age 23. He soon earned his masters. Do you really believe someone who fits that description is not a "serious" student? IMHO, that type of student is far more serious than the type who is there partying half the time. :-)
Four, five, six years... The amount of time has nothing to do with whether or not a college student is serious.
Well, to me it would be unless something serious interferes with their progress for some reason. Maybe a serious illness gets in the way, or yes..., it would be a "serious problem" if money wasn't available. But, then I would wonder why they were going to the university in the first place, then.
But, here is where being serious counts. Every year that person delays finishing their degree education, that's one year they lose off their earning capacity and capability. It's one year cut short off their maximum earning potential for their potential future wife or husband and/or the family that they will raise. That all costs money and things that cut short the total earning capability (let's say, taking three years longer in university -- that is three years removed from the back end of their earning career, when they're at the highest earning potential having taken that long to advance to that level, over their entire career).
Some people who have looked at this -- have said, just taking 'four years off your working career" for a university education is hard enough to make up for anyway, sometimes. Just think how much more difficult it would be to make up if you lose 7 years from your working career and advancement, because the student decided to be somewhat lackadaisical in pursuing the degree and finishing.
Of course, I'm talking about students here, who are starting their working careers by first getting that degree education and then stepping into some career that will support them and their families from then on, even if they change and/or advance into other areas, as they go along in their careers.
I say that to distinguish from those who are not going for a degree education in the first place and/or may simply be keeping up some educational requirements at work and they only take a classs here and there. And also, there are those who just take a class here and there for fun and for personal advancement and nothing much more than that. Those are not the people I'm talking about.
But, don't get me wrong about Community College, though. I think it's great and it's also a fine alternative for those who perhaps want something akin to a "trade degree"... (not exactly that, but similar). You just take a few courses for two years, get a certificate of completion for that and/or some short "program" they offer and it puts you into some jobs with certain "skills" that put you slightly ahead of some other coming into the job market without that training and/or skills. And Community College would be great for that kind of thing.
Also, Community College is great for those fun and interesting courses and a lot of people do take those course there for that. I've done that, too... in my later years and have had fun with such courses. There was one course at a Community College that I took which was Sign Language. Now, that was fun and interesting, although I already knew it. But, in this instance, I got to see what it was like, learning it from an educational viewpoint, instead of a experiential viewpoint. And that was "educational" all by itself ... :-)
So, Community College does serve its purpose and that's fine as far as it goes.
You'd have to plan well and find out first which credits the university will accept.
[ ... ]
TODAY, the community colleges around here have close relationships with universities.
You're right about planning ahead and it can be difficult. I remember that option was mentioned (as educators counsel studens when they are considering their options for what they want to do, before they get into a university education) -- and upon looking at it, I saw all sorts of pitfalls in that one.
For example..., you're right when you say that Community Colleges and Universities have a close relationship... they did back then, too..., when I was looking at it. But, what you'll find is that extends usually only within your own state. There will be things that will be given full credit or half-credit from the Community College upon transfering to a university in the state -- but -- there will be no credit if you decided to transfer to a university in another state -- perhaps one that is better suited to your major and would be preferable in graduating from there, for your future career. That's a problem that you could run into.
And from the standpoint of your educational portfolio, it's much better to have a full university education, from beginning to end, when you're competing against others, in the job market, who will have that. Depending on how important that particular education you have is for that job -- it could make all the difference in the world.
But, if you're talking about it making a difference for being a "car salesman" ... LOL ... no, it won't make a difference at all ... :-) ...
Remember, we're talking about a 13yo student. Maybe her parents plan to put her into CC full-time.
Yes, I understand that's the subject of the thread, and I don't think it's a wise idea for her to be in a university education setting at this time (aside for a couple of classes maybe here and there, and supervised right "on-site" by the mother, as I noted was the only way I would do it, per Post #125 ...
BUT, what I'm "taking off on" here -- is -- what some others have referred to as the homeschooled kids' ability to be as capable and socially aware and as functional as adults, being far beyond her actual years, because of being homeschool. In other words, she is supposed to be "as capable" if not more so, in the social skills and being able to even act and think and behave like an adult -- perhaps even surpassing those 18-24 year olds in college right then, who come from public education backgrounds.
And to go further "down that line of thinking" (as I've heard here) -- it was said that this gives homeschooled kids a "head start" over those others in public schools, in getting going in their own futures and careers, because they are so much more capable. (I don't think so, in that way..., but just saying what I've seen here ...).
Therefore, if that homeschooled girl of 13-14 years old is so much more capable and socially adept, and the equivalent of those older college students and being able to interact like "an adult" and make "adult decisions" (because of her background and training in homeschooling) -- then it makes sense that this would give her a "tremendous head start" in her career and being very successful.
HOWEVER, that's only true if that 13-14 year old actually does pursue that four-year degree program (and/or continues with masters and doctorate, if required for that career; if not, then continues into the job market and her career).
I mean, if she takes just a few courses, here and there, is monitored by the parents (like I mentioned above, and ends up taking a sum total of let's say about 7 years or perhaps 8 years to finally finish -- she's lost her advantage of "timing" and being that much further ahead of those others who are graduating normally from the university coming out of the public education sphere.
In other words, her "advanced capabilities" and "socially adept" skills are useful -- if -- she pursues that university education full-speed ahead and ends up being four years ahead of everyone else, when she finishes. Then she's got a tremendous advantage of having four more earning years at the highest level of earnings as she advances through her long career, even if it's interrupted for kids. And, in fact, this "advanced start" could help her a lot, if she has kids, because then when she "takes a break" for those kids, then she can be back into the job market and not be way behind, because of how fast she advanced earlier.
BUT, if all that happens with the "advanced capabilities" of homeschooled kids of 13-14 years old, is that they end up finishing at the same time as everyone else -- well..., they don't "gain the advantage" in the job market by gaining those four years of extra time in their working career. They may gain the advantage by being more responsible and being more capable of doing a better job than others -- but not in more time for earning capacity.
That's one thing that I heard from some comment here, in that they would get a "head start" in that sense. But not unless they "go at it full time" -- when they have that advantage.
In starting college at age 13, she would have plenty of time to spend taking courses at her leisure, while still enjoying the life a typical 13yo girl might lead.
Well, that's what I would say. I would say forget about the "head start" she has, as she's not really fully capable of handling mixing in with those 18-24 year olds in a university setting. Let her "be the kid she really is" and not the adult that some seem to think she is ... :-)
She needs time to be a kid and play around with other kids her own age. And then when she "grows up" -- she can go to the university full time ...
Here's a secret I learned: There isn't a dime's worth of difference between the courses at a community college and the same courses at a university. There was no difference between the professors at CC versus the university.
There's a completely different focus of the Community College to the University setting. It probably can be summed up by saying "theoretical" to the "practical/everyday".
The Community College is the "practical/everyday" stuff. You get some hands-on things that are directly applicable to immediate things on the job and in the job market. They are usually related to certain job skills and/or things that can be more immediately practical in the everyday world.
Now, the University education is more theoretical and will involve an education that seems to be more philosophical and more "long-range" and it's more capable of giving you something that you'll use in the long run and will advance that perhaps to higher levels of achievement in their careers.
In Community College, you may learn about some database program on a computer and have a computer science education to go along with that and learn some practical things about computers that will translate to something useful almost immediately on the job, right at the moment you finish off two years.
With a Community College education, you may end up being a supervisor in the company you're in, over some computer department and division. With a university education, you may end up being a Vice President, and assistant to the President of the company over the entire Computer/IT division.
That's just an example of how I would distinguish the two. Not everyone is meant to be the Vice President and many more are going to be supervisors ... so the Community College system is important for businesses, too ...
Do you really believe someone who fits that description is not a "serious" student? IMHO, that type of student is far more serious than the type who is there partying half the time. :-)
Given the cost differences between the university education and the Community College one... I would say that those in the university can't afford to party too much ... LOL ...
There's much more money left over to "party" at the Community College level ... :-)
But, aside from that, I don't see any reason why one environment would product more "partiers" than the other. As far as "being serious" -- I'm talking about future earning potential and job advancement capabilities and also -- being serious in not taking too much "time" in taking courses, so that you take twice as long as how it can be done -- thus cutting short your entire working career by about four years (perhaps) and losing all that earning potential.