Posted on 05/18/2010 4:35:36 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson
MacArthur actually only had about nine hours notice and he didn’t actually have anywhere to safely fly the planes.
At the very least the Brits may have been more willing to sue for peace.
Actually, the French claim is true [to a degree]. Giraud’s 7th Army fought on the extreme left of the Allied line moving into Belgium/ Holland as part of the Dyle plan, and to coordinate with the Dutch/ Belgians and show Allied support.
Prior to the transfer to that sector, Giraud’s Army had been THE French reserve north of the Maginot Line. Located behind Corap’s 9th Army. At Sedan.
Of course I'm not addressing the issue of whether British will to resist Hitler would have survived the capture of the entire BEF.
Others may have different opinions.
First, if the took Dunkirk, the Germans would have had almost 300,000 British prisoners [give or take] as a bargaining chip [along with most of the British Army’s heavy equipment]. So invasion might not have been necessary.
However, the idea of a quick invasion wasn’t going to happen. One: No plan in place. Two: The commander of the German airborne was hors de combat [friendly fire] in Rotterdam. Three [and most critically] the German navy had taken a pounding in Norway. 50% losses in destroyers, The loss of three cruisers sunk, one damaged. One battlecruiser damaged. And, more importantly, no transports, or dedicated LCs in numbers needed to support a large enough force of infantry over a large enough area to gain a beach hold, and soon after a port [neeeded to move in Armor and heavy equipment].
http://worldwar2daybyday.blogspot.com/
Day 261 May 18, 1940
Despite the stop order imposed on the German tanks, Rommel pushes 7th Panzer Division on to Cambrai and then halts to consolidate his supply lines and protect his flanks. He has advanced 85 miles due West (more than half way to the English Channel) in 5 days, capturing over 10,000 French prisoners & 100 tanks. His losses are about 50 dead and 100 wounded. The rapid pace constantly wrecks Allied counterattack plans; French formations are overrun while they prepare to attack. 7th Panzer becomes known as the “Ghost Division” for its ability to appear unexpectedly. Over 6 million French refugees take to the roads, convinced they will be occupied any minute. Populations of cities in Northern France drop by 90%.
German U-boats resume harassing Allied shipping in North Atlantic and around Britain, after several weeks patrolling the Dutch, Danish and Norwegian coasts in support of the invasions. U-60 & U-62 sail from Kiel, joining U-37 & U-43.
The second stop order was influenced by Rommel’s dustup with the British armor at Arras. It took 88s in the anti-tank role to stop the Matildas used in the attac, and Rommel had a touch and go battle for a while [involving not only his 7th Pz., bu elements of the 3d SS “Totenkopf” mot. div.].
That British counterattack sent shockwaves all the way up the line, and Rundstedt was particularly voceriferous in demanding a halt so the infantry could catch up.
The last war is very easy for us to fight with the benefit of hindsight. Sort of like how auditors can tell you about all your wrong business decisions, but were nowhere to be found back when the decisions had to be made...
26 more days and the Germans take Paris.
I’m not sure if you are criticizing me: if you are, I’m not sure what the criticism is. If you are not criticizing me, but simply making a statement, I can hardly do anything but agree with you. Hindsight is 20/20, and those who actually make the decisions in real time do not have the benefit of it.
No criticism toward you at all. Hindsight is indeed 20/20.
Your point about how loss of the BEF would have been a tremendous blow to British morale is interesting. Churchill had just taken over and the opposition would have made hay with such a loss.
As it was, Churchill was able to spin Dunkirk into a ‘victory’ and used it as a rallying point.
Spoiler warning needed!!! hee, hee
While Kimmel’s career was wrecked with his fleet at Pearl, it really wasn’t his fault. Protection of the fleet base was not the navy’s responsibility, it was the army’s. The US Army air forces on Hawaii were sufficient to provide air defense for the island, of which the fleet base was the most important military asset. The American disaster and Japanese success was a result of Short’s incompetence.
“I find it educational that back in 1940 the press saw the German penetration better than the French and Allied leadership.”
It’s true. Tomorrow I’ll post the French intelligence map of German unit locations for May 20. You will see how their current “sitrep” map is badly behind actual events, but also how apparent it is that they are screwed.
I did take note today that first of all, the severity of the situation is finally making it into the reporting. It has reached a point where it can not longer be glossed over.
The second thing I noticed is that some of the finger pointing is already beginning. That’s not a good sign when you are only 8 days into a battle. If I was just an average Joe in America who was getting his only information from the newspaper, today’s issue would have been very concerning with the sudden turn of events.
Nimitz is right. Of the battleships at Pearl, only two were not re-floated. Had these ships been in deep water at the time, it would have been a sharper blow.
I agree, Kimmel’s career was trashed for something he had no control over (and had actually warned could happen), but Short was incompetent and deserved what he got.
And the loss of life would have been catastophic had the ships been at sea.
I think it goes beyond Short though I’m not absolving him. I also have my own opinions on MacArthur too on all of this, but I will save the heavy debate for next year. I do find it interesting that the attack on France keeps stirring up commentary on Pearl Harbor. That’s very American of us, isn’t it. ;)
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