Posted on 04/29/2010 8:58:35 PM PDT by se_ohio_young_conservative
Let me say first of all that I am a Christian with a strong faith in God. I grew up going to church with my grandpa. I accepted Jesus Christ into my life at a young age.
My wife was raised in a strict christian home. But I think that worked against her in some ways. I think certain people in her family turned her off on religion at points along the way. She is now an atheist. She is a great mom to our 16 month old twins. She is an awesome wife. I love her so much and I will never let it destroy our marriage. So I have been very open and tolerant of her views while praying for her like crazy at the same time.
She has been mostly apolitical and I guess she has been more intrested in recent months watching Fox News with me and listening to the radio. She is very much against abortion. She knows that Obama is a disaster for this country.
It came up in another thread. We have been watching Glenn Beck. and my wife likes him at times. But he really loses her when he goes off into a deep religious discussion. Here I am trying to get her to see and understand things that are going on, and religion comes up, and she sort of tunes out and changes the subject.
That got me thinking. I know this country was founded by men of faith. I know many of us conservatives are religious. But can't a person be a conservative, pro life and atheist ? and still love their country just as much as I do ? ... How many out there are like my wife ?
I tend to think so for sure. But at the same time. I don't want to remove our religious traditions either. They are very important. Our country needs them now more than ever. But I think people like my wife are important to our cause as well. Men and women in their 20s, not religious, but conservative on many issues and they don't even label or know they are conservative. So I guess the problem is.. We can't slip into a politically correct echo chamber, but at the same time we must carefully equate our christian traditions with religious freedom for all. Our rights come from God. and that includes the right not to be religious of course.
what do you say ?
“How about just using your mind instead of relying on an all-knowing being to tell you how to figure things out.”
It’s interesting that you assume I haven’t tried that! Was raised to be an atheist, not a militant one, just a matter-of-fact one.
I have found that my mind is very good at such things as rationalizing my evil while condemning the evil of others.
While I would generalize stealing as bad, I justified all sorts of stealing. While I thought murder was wrong, I hated some people almost to death and was gleeful over the death of some. While I believed that other people should be genuinely respected, I discovered that I constantly, in large and small ways, disrespected them, etc. While I believed in total sexual license, I saw the same destroying myself and others - particularly minors.
Scripture answers these continual contradictions of mine. And the gospel handles them, perfectly.
The Bible is infinitely superior to my mind. The more I learn of it, the more there is to it. I know when I’ve been beaten! Beaten in a positive way, if you catch my drift.
Well your mention of “other people” for one. I assumed by your use of “other people,” you meant humans, and not your imaginary friends from Neptune.
To 2 - Sarah Elizabeth Cupp: A credit to conservatism and to the fair sex.
I’m not asking why it’s necessary for God. Clearly if God is God, then nothing is necessary for God.
I’m asking why its necessary for you.
I respect your views. And I wasn’t assuming anything about what you’ve tried.
But don’t you sometimes just feel you are surrendering to an alternative, albeit much more positive and constructive, form of emotionalism over reason?
>>> I’m asking why its necessary for you.
well, i’m slightly confused about what you think that I think is necessary.... is it freedom itself?
If you are asking me why freedom is necessary for me,
my answer is that it is not.
God’s grace is sufficient for me.
That does not mean however that I don’t desire freedom, because I do... and I would hope that I would be willing to die for it for others. It’s part of human nature to yearn for freedom... look at atheists... they even desire to be free from God. Unfortunately they fail to understand that freedom is not possible without Him.
I’m very specifically asking why you think there is a need to obtain your freedom from another entity. I’m not asking if you feel there is an entity that grants you freedom, and I’m not asking about your religious beliefs.
I’m asking why you don’t think that freedom is essentially a part of you that cannot be granted to you by someone or something or God.
Why is it necessary that God is the one that grants you freedom?
Why is it not possible that you simply have freedom and that you didn’t need to get it from anyone? Why is it necessary?
And if its not necessary and essential to your existence, then what is the need of God?
You would be wrong, a nice trite sound bite, but simply not true.
I’ve been in the situation of seeing the oncoming disaster, sudden conversion to religion never even entered my mind.
Attacked by multiple gang-banger thugs who assured me that they intended to kill me, saw the car coming that hit me and broke my back, once VERY nearly died from flash-burn injuries, never even had a hint of religious conversion as a result of any of these.
My reaction to disaster is to furiously look for a possible solution, not to irrationally think some divine figure should or could save me.
My gun saved me from the illegal alien thugs, paramedics from the vehicle accident, and my grandmother from the inattentive striking nurses at the county hospital burn ward.
I'm, a book guy, a street guy, and a warrior guy, I deal in a lot of levels, one thing that I pick up everywhere is some sense of God.
Atheists are rare, at least in free nations.
What I’ve noticed is that most of the atheists hang out on crevo threads. They consider themselves conservative because they have thought through many issues and arrived at some very rational political positions. But when push comes to shove, they shove good conservatives under the bus when they can. Atheism combined with scientism is their religion.
Yes.
But he should be watched.
We still have crevo threads?
I have been an atheist ever since I learned, at a young age, just what a bullying, abusive, money grubbing, sham most organized religious organizations are.
Once old enough to think for myself I did my own study of comparative religions.
All of them simply shake out as fairy tales or odious attempts at intimidation to me.
I have been told that I am “To the right of Genghis Kahn”.
Since the people saying it are also very conservative, I take it as a compliment.
Many of my fellow conservatives are also devout, none have ever tried to expel me for my disbelief.
Being a constitutional originalist does not require religion, just lots of patience.
Thank you for the interesting quotes, I am adding them to my collection.
Your life belongs to God. You shall learn this soon enough.
“But don’t you sometimes just feel you are surrendering to an alternative, albeit much more positive and constructive, form of emotionalism over reason?”
There is no denying that emotion is part of faith in Christ. I do, however, believe that Christian faith is very reasonable. To read through the narratives of the people of Israel, the extremely rational argumentation by the apostles, the juxtaposed perfect justice AND mercy of the gospels - very reasonable.
But I must say my atheist life - a long time ago now, so I have to try hard to remember - also was very emotional. Certainly I tried and sometimes I succeeded to reason things out. But a lot of my reasoning was driven by an emotion. Anger.
So no, I don’t think I have surrendered to emotion over reason. I think emotion and reason are present in both Christianity and atheism.
“Or maybe they have an answer, but you might not be prepared to follow the logic of the answer to where it leads.”
Well, I think I’m prepared to follow the logic. That’s why I asked the question.
I may disagree with the logical ends, however! But I was interested in Mariner’s view.
Most atheist see the VALUE of religion in the social order...considering there's so many folks (and this is NOT a measure of intelligence) who need an external reference point.”
I think that atheists and agnostics and secularists can support conservative positions on most things. Most of the ones I am acquainted with, would be welcome supporters of conservative causes.
However, I think they would have a problem with the “god given rights” part of our founding documents.
The only thing I am really upset about started with Madelene Murray Ohare(it seemed a minor annoyance then. Some atheists/agnostics/secularists seem determined to change our society and constitution from it's religious basis to a society devoid of any reference to God. Liberal activist judges have been quite willing to help.
I agree that freedom of religion is what the framers intended, but we are evolving to more and more freedom from religion. I have to admit I'd kinda like that to stop.
I feel like we have been like Neville Chamberlain giving ground bit by bit. If they can live and let live I am ok with their desire to be free from religion.
But if they are so intolerant of other people's faith, that they have to contact the ACLU and stop some religious tradition then that is increasingly frustrating to me.
There is a Freeper, Loyal Sedition(LS) who claims to be a really good conservative. LS has stated “Freedom of religion has to include the right to be free FROM religion or it is meaningless.
Other LS statements: No one is ever going to force me into their regime, not the communist, Catholics, Mormons, Muslims, Buddhist, Hindu, or any other sect. And let there be no confusion, I desire to be as FREE FROM religion as possible not merely agnostic. Religious holidays annoy me, I am tired of having to conform my schedule to others superstition.” I never knew there was a Conservative who felt this strongly against the US religious traditions. To be fair, I had made a remark about getting rid of government corruption by returning to our Christian roots,and flippantly joked that atheists, etc could be booted out too. It set LS off, called me Taliban, said to bring body bags, labeled the post as "kill the Infidels"LOL I'm just a granny who never even fired a gun.
Just a few days ago, I was thinking about some of the people who have used the courts to restrict our religious traditions. To me, these people are just a guilty(maybe more so) of proselytizing and pushing their anti-religion onto others as the people they take to court.
It seems to me we have spent the last 50 years, giving in to the minority positions to the point that the majority of at least 70% is living according to the dictates of a vocal minority of less than 30%, and that just seems whacked.
So the answer to the question is yes, but if their aversion to religion is so great they are going to sue someone to try to remake the USA into a secular society, then I am not so sure that is compatible with what most conservatives believe about their country.
Check out this video of a Marty Robbin’s song about Christ.
Before anyone saw it that way.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzetIKJLzlI&feature=related
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