Posted on 04/29/2010 8:58:35 PM PDT by se_ohio_young_conservative
Let me say first of all that I am a Christian with a strong faith in God. I grew up going to church with my grandpa. I accepted Jesus Christ into my life at a young age.
My wife was raised in a strict christian home. But I think that worked against her in some ways. I think certain people in her family turned her off on religion at points along the way. She is now an atheist. She is a great mom to our 16 month old twins. She is an awesome wife. I love her so much and I will never let it destroy our marriage. So I have been very open and tolerant of her views while praying for her like crazy at the same time.
She has been mostly apolitical and I guess she has been more intrested in recent months watching Fox News with me and listening to the radio. She is very much against abortion. She knows that Obama is a disaster for this country.
It came up in another thread. We have been watching Glenn Beck. and my wife likes him at times. But he really loses her when he goes off into a deep religious discussion. Here I am trying to get her to see and understand things that are going on, and religion comes up, and she sort of tunes out and changes the subject.
That got me thinking. I know this country was founded by men of faith. I know many of us conservatives are religious. But can't a person be a conservative, pro life and atheist ? and still love their country just as much as I do ? ... How many out there are like my wife ?
I tend to think so for sure. But at the same time. I don't want to remove our religious traditions either. They are very important. Our country needs them now more than ever. But I think people like my wife are important to our cause as well. Men and women in their 20s, not religious, but conservative on many issues and they don't even label or know they are conservative. So I guess the problem is.. We can't slip into a politically correct echo chamber, but at the same time we must carefully equate our christian traditions with religious freedom for all. Our rights come from God. and that includes the right not to be religious of course.
what do you say ?
While conservatism reflects the golden rule and the principles of the Ten Commandments, it isn’t necessary for someone to be a Christian to borrow those principles. A Christian can be a conservative, should be, in my opinion, but conservatism isn’t Christianity. Christianity, the Kingdom of Heaven, has influenced America, and a lot of people have benefited from that influence, Christians and non Christians alike. I’ve read a number of comments by agnostics and atheists over the years who recognize the positive influence of those Christian values. All that is required to be a conservative is good sense and good principles.
What the hell makes you think I want to be part of your community, or that I need anything from you?
The only reason that a reasoning atheist would want to tear down a social institution would be if he felt the institution had grown so fundamentally flawed as to represent a threat to the greater social order, in that sense the atheist can be conservative in his belief that conceptual and institutional structure is necessary for society to grow and thrive, and at the same time be opposed to certain institutions, including certain forms of government, that are antithetical to that survival.
That said, it’s important to remember, and to interpret the founding documents in light of the fact that, although the Founders we not atheists, in the broad sociological spectrum of the day, they were somewhat radical, albeit gentrified, and would not have been considered fundamentalist or even mainstream Christians. The were mostly Deist, and its interesting to note how the language of many of the founding documents talk about God as an existing entity, but not an intervening one. They seem to have been careful not to talk about the providential and ongoing concern of god in people’s lives.
The founding documents tend to stress the fact that God made everything, and then left everything alone. Notice that man was created, past tense, and endowed with certain rights. This is the Deist view of God creating everything and then leaving each human to work with the gifts he is given. So they were not theological authoritarians or even Calvinistic for the most part, but more had the view of God as a creator and clockmaker, leaving man to find his way through the use of reason, a view shared by certain modes of modern atheist thought, although the larger group of atheists contains some unsavory characters. A reliance on reason makes modern atheist libertarians the intellectual inheritors of the tradition of the Deist American Founders.
Of course. Just because you don’t believe in G-d does not mean He does not believe in you. You can still be quite the conservative even if you aren’t sure just Who granted us these freedoms.
I would rat you out, warn the authorities that you consider growing cannabis your 'self-defined right', and that you claimed that anyone who tries to take away this 'self-defined right' would be shot by you 'right between the eyes'. And if you actually mean what you are posting, you would be shot dead by SWAT.
I see then that you aren’t a believe in total autonomy.
You see the woman and her family having a pretty serious, expensive, time and emotion consuming obligation for a person that was not initiated by them by their own free will.
You see an extended community of church and/or community type group as having a certain obligation, at least to help them.
In the absence of the young woman’s or her family’s willingness or ability to care for the child, you see an obligation on the part of our government.
I do, too, but some hard core atheists and libertarians don’t seem to.
I see strict libertarian and strict atheist reasoning as becoming illogical on that point - the point, that is, of care for the defenseless and those unable to “help themselves.” Children, of course, particularly the very smallest. The seriously handicapped. Then you run into what if it’s their fault they are handicapped? Maybe they drove drunk, maybe they wandered in a bad part of town - who is obligated to care for them then? Those in comas. The frail and/or demented elderly - some of whom maybe didn’t really provide enough for their future? Or got ripped off because they got a little dingy? And so on.
It is interesting for me to think about and explore.
Or maybe they have an answer, but you might not be prepared to follow the logic of the answer to where it leads.
I sure like that.
How about just using your mind instead of relying on an all-knowing being to tell you how to figure things out.
A conservative understands what our founding documents say and mean... and believes in it.
If our freedom is a gift from God, how can an atheist share this understanding with conservatism?
Conservative in what regards I might ask?... what a vague term it is... “conservative”... do we know what it means?... how many different definitions will we get if we ask for it?
I don’t think there’s any question what an atheist is.
Can an atheist and conservative share principles? well of course they can. But only one will know WHY they work.
Why does your freedom need to be a gift from anyone?
huh? That makes no sense whatsoever.
If they vote conservative, I’m happy. I don’t care how they arrive at the idea.
>>> Why does your freedom need to be a gift from anyone?
It doesn’t... but it is... so I am thankful for it.
Why is it necessary? If it isn’t necessary then why do it?
Why is what necessary?
In re: your experience with the repulsive “priest” -
“The gospel’s most dangerous earthly adversaries are not raving atheists who stand outside the door shouting threats and insults. They are church leaders who cultivate a gentle, friendly, pious demeanor but hack away at the foundations of faith under the guise of keeping in step with a changing world.
No Christian should naively imagine that heresy is always conspicuous or that every purveyor of theological mischief will lay out his agenda in plain and honest terms. The enemy prefers to sow tares secretly for obvious reasons. Thus Scripture expressly warns us to be on guard against false teachers who creep into the church unnoticed (Jude 4); wolves who sneak into the flock wearing sheep’s clothing (Matthew 7:15); and servants of Satan who disguise themselves as angels of light (2 Corinthians 11:13-15).”
Written by Phil Johnson
http://www.9marks.org/ejournal/neo-liberal-stealth-offensive
I post it to encourage you that God condemns this “priest’s” behavior and has warned us all about such “priests.”
I hope some day you will enjoy the real joy that comes from being in a good fellowship with a REAL pastor.
>>> Why does your freedom need to be a gift from anyone?
It doesn’t... but it is... so I am thankful for it.
“It doesn’t” [need to be a gift] ... “but it is . . .”
[If it doesn’t need to be a gift, then it is not necessary for it to be a gift.]
Which raises the question:
Why is it necessary? If it isn’t necessary then why do it?
'It matters nary to me if my neighbor believes in one God, a hundred Gods, or no God'
In other words, tend to your own business.
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