Posted on 04/29/2010 10:07:50 AM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach
* Adobe shares fall 2 percent, Apple up 2.4 pct
SAN FRANCISCO, April 29 (Reuters) - Apple Inc (AAPL.O) Chief Executive Steve Jobs on Thursday called Adobe Systems (ADBE.O) Flash multimedia software a "closed system" that is ill-suited for the company's suite of mobile devices, escalating the war of words between the two companies.
Jobs said Flash's system is closed because it is a proprietary system from Adobe, which controls everything from its features to its pricing. Ironically, perhaps, similar charges have been lobbed at Apple's products and services, such as iTunes.
In a long, detailed letter posted on Apple's website, Jobs cited a number of problems with Flash, which is used to run video on many Internet sites but which is not compatible with Apple's iPhone and iPad."
"Adobe has characterized our decision as being primarily business driven - they say we want to protect our App Store - but in reality it is based on technology issues. Adobe claims that we are a closed system, and that Flash is open, but in fact the opposite is true," he said.
(Excerpt) Read more at reuters.com ...
As did all of those respondants on this thread who said in effect "you want flash? Go buy something else."
IMHO, Mr. Jobs does not have a point, because nobody is insisting that developers use only flash to develop apps.
What it would do is allow developers to create one app that can be cross compiled among platforms, reducing the need to completely rewrite apps in Steve's annointed development suite for the iPhone/iPad/iTouch ("iStuff.")
Steve's quote:
"Again, we cannot accept an outcome where developers are blocked from using our innovations and enhancements because they are not available on our competitor’s platforms"
really translates to:
"we cannot allow developers to create apps that run the same on Droids and Blackberries as they do on iPhones. Our apps must be unique."
Because developers are not "blocked" from using Apples "innovations and enhancements," those are still available in the Steve Jobs development suite. It only "blocks" those developers who write exclusively in flash, once, and move on to a new project, instead of rewriting the app in a different language for iStuff.
So blocking flash is fine, but just don't claim you're blocking flash because it is closed. If flash were available on the iStuff, then developers would be tempted to use it, and that's what irks Steve.
really translates to:"Again, we cannot accept an outcome where developers are blocked from using our innovations and enhancements because they are not available on our competitor’s platforms"
"we cannot allow developers to create apps that run the same on Droids and Blackberries as they do on iPhones. Our apps must be unique."It would - if Apple were using a proprietary development not available to other vendors. But Apple claims that it is participating in the creation of open standards:
Though the operating system for the iPhone, iPod and iPad is proprietary, we strongly believe that all standards pertaining to the web should be open. Rather than use Flash, Apple has adopted HTML5, CSS and JavaScript – all open standards. Apple’s mobile devices all ship with high performance, low power implementations of these open standards. HTML5, the new web standard that has been adopted by Apple, Google and many others, lets web developers create advanced graphics, typography, animations and transitions without relying on third party browser plug-ins (like Flash). HTML5 is completely open and controlled by a standards committee, of which Apple is a member.
I read the last part as stating apple does not worry about downward compatability. - longtermmemmoryTo achieve long battery life when playing video, mobile devices must decode the video in hardware; decoding it in software uses too much power. Many of the chips used in modern mobile devices contain a decoder called H.264 – an industry standard that is used in every Blu-ray DVD player and has been adopted by Apple, Google (YouTube), Vimeo, Netflix and many other companies.IOW, Adobe recognizes the problem by adding support for H.264 in recent versions of Flash - but existing Flash-compatible video mostly isn't compatible with versions of Flash which support H.264.Although Flash has recently added support for H.264, the video on almost all Flash websites currently requires an older generation decoder that is not implemented in mobile chips and must be run in software. The difference is striking: on an iPhone, for example, H.264 videos play for up to 10 hours, while videos decoded in software play for less than 5 hours before the battery is fully drained.
So if you have video in your site which isn't compatible with HTML5 you probably have to e-encode it - and the only issue is whether you encode to proprietary Flash or open HTML5. And Apple is throwing its weight behind HTML5.
It would - because Apple is a trailblazer which goes for the high end of the market with innovation. As such, Apple isn't interested in being held back by "cross platform" compatibility.
I have to agree.
not good for business where upgrades have to be legacy compatable.
Can’t replace the whole office.
I have to completely disagree with your characterization of this. One of the chief complaints about Microsoft environments was the LACK standardization of menus in the DOS and later Windows environment for years under Microsoft's very loose guidelines that resulted in users not knowing where to find normal and standard functions that were shared by most programs. Apple was the business that was accused of placing its developers in a straight jacket of requiring conformity to their way of doing things... and criticized roundly for doing what today is seen as wisdom.
If they are so superior why did Microsoft have to bail them out when they first got rid of Jobs.
Your grasp of history is tenuous at best. The so-called "bail-out" occurred in 1997 when Steve Jobs was brought back to Apple as interim CEO of Apple... and it was a settlement of a lawsuit having to do with Microsoft's involvement with the appropriation of Apple's intellectual property from Quicktime that was found in it's entirety inside MS's Media Player for Windows... that was settled to Apple's benefit and Microsoft's detriment. The "bail-out" of $150 million was part of three interlocking agreements that that settled the lawsuit that Steve Jobs negotiated.
There are standard menus in Windows, MS has had standards out there for ages and you have to follow the standards to be logo certified. Why Windows LOOKS unstandardized is because 99% of the software made for it never even submits for logo certification, and half the stuff that submits and fails they just abandon the effort. Apple users pay more attention to Apple’s approval so non-certified apps don’t sell well, which keeps Macs looking more standardized. Most Windows users don’t even know there is such a thing as logo certification or what it means.
For a while there government offices wanted their software to have all applicable certifications (logo from the OS, FASB for accounting stuff, etc) so companies that were selling to the government were pretty much the only people that sought logo cert. In recent years government offices have backed off of that. The next version of my company’s software will be our first one since the product moved over from OS2 that seeks no logo cert. Now that the government has backed off from the cert hunt I think the only Windows apps that will be logoed (and therefore following the standards) will be the stuff from MS.
Thank you for the better explanation. I now understand what you were trying to say... and agree with you. However, it was errors of configuration, not inherent problems with the hardware in the Xserves that you complain of. I am not sure that it was the Apple Store people how are to blame for this. They generally do not do this kind of set up... are you sure it was not some other value-added operation?
The result was a slew of unnecessary or underused hardware - at least in the case of the two X Servers. One would have done just fine. The main reason that I was brought into the picture was that the Mac store stopped returning his calls. I had just solved some of their WAN datacom issues - moved and configured the T1 HWIC from one Cisco 1841 to the other and got their money back on the unnecessary second one. That bought me a little street cred. So I was able to get the rest of their stuff working as it should. I should also add that the company in question had exactly half a page of passwords as their 'systems documentation'. I remedied that as well. My attitude was - You've got Mac desktops? No problem. Let's get your line-of-business apps functioning correctly in that environment. Which is what I did for them.
The most common problem with industries like mining and building materials (cement, asphalt and aggregate in my current case) is that line-of-business apps tend to be vertically integrated, highly ideosyncratic and have been customized and tweaked to a fare-thee-well. Getting a cement plant batch mixing panel to communicate correctly and consistently with everything else that supports it can be, well, interesting. Some of this stuff is barely out of simple serial and DOS stage. SCADA's a world unto itself, also. This is what I have to deal with.
OK... that's why I said I could have gotten everything to work as well. It's what I do. You and I, I think, are on the same page. It sounds like he got taken by a bunch of non-competent, non-Apple third party idiots. I don't think these were Apple employees from an official Apple Store... but at best perhaps an Apple reseller working WAY outside their level of competence.
What you describe is how I get most of my jobs as well.,. by my customers telling others that I have street cred because I saved their cookies from others like these guys. I come in and cut through the Bull Crap... and make it work. Some of this stuff is barely out of simple serial and DOS stage. SCADA's a world unto itself, also. This is what I have to deal with.
I know what you mean... about four years ago I was called in to a custom built mixing plant out in the boonies of the foothills and found that it was being run by a system that was controlled by, get this, a Commodore 64... Still worked. They had a dozen used 64s and about as many 1702 monitors stockpiled in case one went out on them. . . and the plant manager stopped at garage sales and bought them whenever he saw them for sale. His father had built the dang thing back in the 80s and it is still working. They wanted to know if it would be economical to switch things to a PC system... I asked them if there was any compelling reason they had to switch from what they had. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, was their answer.
Can’t replace the whole office.
It's true that you can't replace the whole office - at least, not in one gulp. But it is also true that you have to "replace the whole office" over time, if you are not to get hopelessly out of date. It's not "planned obsolescence, it's planned transcendence - you know when you buy a computer that a better one with a better CPU is in the works - you just have to decide when to consider your old computer obsolete and get one that's 4 times better.
Dude, that's hysterically funny. I guess you've never had serial BSODs, malware, spyware or viruses or had to connect a peripheral or network to a PC. Use a mac for a couple of days (you're going to tell me you HAVE used one and hated it, right?) and see what it's like not to worry about that stuff
If they are so superior why did Microsoft have to bail them out when they first got rid of Jobs.
I don't know what "bailout" you're referring to. Apple represented a steady user base for MS, and the death of Apple would have given voice to the those claiming that MS engaged in predatory and monopolistic tactics. MS bought a token quantity of Apple stock as a measure of good faith at one point, and profited handsomely from the deal, as did anyone who's bought their stock in the last 15 years.
They have long been known for their overpriced and overpriced electronic bling. If you’re into that, go for it.
One man's over-priced bling is another man's rock-solid, virus-free OS. If you like your PC and think you've gotten a bargain in the deal, well... others might call you a fool, but I wouldn't.
Their arrogance will now likely repeat history as they try to dictate to the user public what is good for them and what is not. It sounds much like what so many rip Microsoft over.
Jobs is clearly stating what those of us who build and manage the web have been saying for 10 years: Flash sucks. And not in some benign, quiet way. Flash sucks wholly and completely, without compare and without equal. It is a cancer. He's calling them out, offering the alternative and telling his users and developers that it's a done deal. He's not looking back; God bless him. What a relief.
It does not matter if Jobs restricts Flash from Apple products, he’ll just turn those who use those sites and apps from Apple products.
Apple this week surpassed Microsoft in market cap. I think your scenario is, at best, fantasy. Apple is without equal as a leader in the tech marketplace today. If Jobs says Flash is dead, send your condolences to Adobe. It's dead.
Consumers will buy and use the products they like and that serve them the best, not what Jobs tells them is best.
Consumers are voting with their wallets. That you disagree with them is irrelevant. Quaint, but still... irrelevant.
You can tell he is a democrat in the obama mold. He is arrogant and believes that he and Apple are so big and popular that they can dictate standards for the rest of the internet users.
That's laughably absurd. The difference is that Apple users can and do vote on the company strategy by buying its products and stock. Both are at record levels. Projecting your ill-will about Obama (which I share, by the way) says more about you than it does about Apple.
Sure I could have dropped out of school, I guess, you might do that to avoid using a Mac, but I chose to finish my career path. That choice involved a PC, sure I could have worked in the Library, if I didn't mind waiting in line....
Your assertion is ridiculous on its face. One can always choose not to succeed, but bending a little is the wiser move, too bad you seem totally unable to accept that there are people who prefer Apple products. Why not just leave us to our misery, we accept it gladly.
Flash works on the Mac, including in Safari.
However, your fan will likely spin up if you watch Flash videos on the Mac. That's because Apple refuses to provide Adobe with the proper APIs to access the display with top efficiency. So Flash incurs substantially higher CPU utilization on the Mac than on Windows, running on similar hardware.
I never had to buy a PC for school, and my major was CSC, I could have done all my work in the lab, and with the way my schedule worked I did quite a bit there. I CHOSE to buy a PC for the same reason I’ve CHOSEN to buy every PC I’ve owned: I wanted a PC for entertainment and once in a while it came in useful for productivity.
Sorry but the only person with ridiculous on their face in this is you, pretending that your life choices were from external force. You chose your career, your career involved certain repercussions, but it was always your choice.
I have no problem with people preferring Apple products, enjoy what you own. I do have a problem with people lying about how reality works and saying they were forced to buy something.
So, Apple will open up QuickTime, a competing product to Flash, or will Steve Jobs continue to keep it closed?
“The created standards and stuck to them and offer a superior user experience. Hate ‘em all you want; their sales tell the story... “
Same could be said of the PC and Microsoft: Hate ‘em all you want; their sales tell the story.
Sure, just put in all CAPS next time, you will convince everyone. Now stuff it where the sun don't shine.
Not lying, but you will soon have the experience of being forced to buy something.
Why do the Apple people have to turn everything personal? It was a simple little conversation about a guy with closing his system to another closed system and now it’s all “stuff it where the sun don’t shine”. You guys need to wrap less of your sense of self worth in the stuff you own, it’s just a computer, get over it.
Only thing I could be forced to buy is Obamacare. Away from government regulation there is always a choice, no one has ever been forced to buy a PC, period. Lie to yourself if you insist, but I will point out the truth, you had a choice, you were not forced, ever.
Number one, don’t refer to me as dude kid, I’m not one of your 20-30 something buddies.
Apple machines for a long time were known as the Macincrap and Crapintosh because they died, froze and had other OS issues for years; as well as computers for dummies. Their OS releases in the 90s were rife with issues. I’ve experienced BSODs from time to time with the older OS versions but they have all but disappeared. When I did experience them it was not hard to fix and/or avoid the issue until a fix was issued; something that I couldn’t do with the closed and secretive Apple environment of the past. I have used Macs extensively. They were and I believe are overhyped so quit being condescending.
Apple was bailed by MS in 97. The article at the following link is just one of many. http://www.nytimes.com/1997/08/08/opinion/the-apple-of-microsoft-s-eye.html They should have let Apple die on the vine.
It is overpriced and overhyped. It has a fan base and that’s fine but that does not make it superior in any way. Job’s approach will knock down that advantage like it has in the past. The iPad is a new, sleek version of what has already been available for a number of years; tablet computing.
Apple and their practice of giving away software and hardware was predatory and an attempt to monopolize the market by their own definition of the term when they went after MS and Jobs current tactics are no different, trying to bully out any possible competition by excluding applications that a large number of web users use. He doesn’t care about what most web users use or even what they want, it’s about proving he is right and everyone else is wrong. So if you like it, use those nice toys that only do what Jobs decides that you wanted and need.
Dude indeed.
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