Posted on 02/16/2010 7:27:44 PM PST by ggrrrrr23456
So, what exactly is a Libertarian?
I have a friend who calls himself a Libertarian. I've known him for about a year. We both have similar interests, share the same political views (generally), and have respect for a benevolent and gracious higher power.
Lately, my friend has been sending out articles written by "Libertarians" and those associated with the Campaign for Liberty. Most of these articles are highly critical of the war on terror, ridicule the efforts of the Bush administration to combat the terror threat, and seize on any opportunity to highlight misguided efforts at Guantanamo, Afghanistan, or Iraq.
I get the impression that my friend believes the government, in its pursuit of terrorists, is seriously endangering the rights of free, law-abiding citizens like you and I. While I can understand the concern, especially in light of the Obama administration's alarming statements regarding military veterans and so-called right-wing extremists (aka Teapartiers), I am searching for the right response that addresses the terror issue without negating the importance of the preservation of individual liberty.
I would appreciate your input.
One of the things that has Arizona cops pretty busy right now is the smugglers from Mexico bringing cigarettes into Arizona and selling them on the black market. Arizona taxes “the hell” out of cigarettes. Dynamic scoring.
You have hit on what I was trying to say.
It is amazing that most republicans here don’t agree with everything the republican party does, but when they argue against the l;ibertarians they ascriobe every libertarian party platform plank to them. It’s a standard straw man technique.
If Conservatives and Libertarians got together and ended welfare, ended free schools, and ended free healthcare, then I would absolutely look at the issue of open borders and I would consider relaxing my view on that (full disclosure: I ain't making any promises).
In my experience, Libertarians want to open the borders first. Then, as it becomes politically feasible, they will look into that whole welfare-education-healthcare mess.
I think the order is important, and in my opinion, Libertarians always get it bassackwards.
My involvement with the Libertarian Party began in the 1970's. I know quite a few Libertarians today. We must run in very different circles, because open borders has been a big issue for decades.
It's one reason I broke with the LP.
IMHO, libertarians are the biggest reason our country is in the mess it is. They have ruined the GOP with their idiotic, childish economic theories. Think of a spoiled child that cries “me” all the time, and you have a libertarian. At heart,they are anarchists, but they will not admit it. Limited gov’t to them is “no” gov’t except what may directly benefit them. Not a happy thing for an entire country.
Much of their nonsense was brought on by Ayn Rand, who supposedly was not a libertarian. Their “free market” ideas have led to foolish deregulation of the financial markets with the disasterous results you see now.Greenspan, a disciple of Ayn Rand, may have had an epiphany or not when he said he had wrongly relied on enlightened self interest of banks.
The libertarians are unable to get much traction in elections so they leeched onto the Republicans and turned them into a party of economic morons and government nihilists. Think Phil Gramm deregulating derivatives. I have coined a phrase for them, LICE, (Libertarians Infiltrating Conservative Entities).
Whenever you hear the “initiation of force” bs, that is libertarians. Imagine conservatives disagreeing with a military draft, and then compare that to the libertarian reaction. That is the difference. Conservatives believe in responsibilities. Libertarians really don’t. Libertarians think the 1800s were the Golden Ages in America, and things like minimum wages, wage and hour laws, child labor laws, worker’s comp, social security, FDA, and medicare are horrible intrusions of gov’t power.
While they may pose as rugged individualists, they are really insecure little children who belong back in Europe when they had lords and ladies to run things. Mention taxing the rich and they wet their short pants out of fear that there will be no rich person to give them a job or take care of them.
Thankfully, America was not founded by Libertarians. If it had, no settlers would have headed West, because there were no rich folks waiting on the prairies and coasts to take care of them. Real American don’t need no rich person to take care of them, and give them jobs, and run things for them. They do it themselves and hopefully get wealthier in the process.
This guy nails it on the head:
http://www.zompist.com/libertos.html
The main reason why most people call themselves libertarians, is because it starts off with “liber” and we think “liberty”. At least that’s my opinion.
parsy, who got carried away again
bookmark
Sounds like a Paulista. Run!!!
There are those Libertarians that think all of their policies enacted at once is the solution. Just like Harry Reid and Pelosi.
And then there are the realists.
The realists would tend to say that the entire nation should have the time to adjust to Livin’ state-free before allowing immigrants to come here for temporary work. There would be no government services to provide them, because there are no government services aside from defense and basic administrative lawmaking.
It’s common sense. Poltical parties don’t often espose it. That’s why I really hope the Tea Party doesn’t end up becoming one.
of course.
They certainly do.
For an interesting look at what would happen with legalized drugs I suggest watching The Wire Season 3. Truth be told I recommend watching the entire series, but season 3 hypothesizes what would happen if a major American city had a legal drug zone.
I completely agree that with sentiment. Who is with me??
No government services for illegals, but those that bring in illegals should be held responsible for them, their healthcare and other things.
The two issues that all the Libertarians I have met have in common are: legalize dope and leave my money alone. While a Conservative and a Libertarian would agree on controlling spending by the government and reducing taxation, it is on the issues of morality and foreign relations (read: isolationism) that distinguish them most clearly. A Libertarian adheres very strongly to John Stuart Mill’s view of liberty, namely, I should be allowed to do anything that I want as long as it does not infringe upon the rights of others. The government has no right to stop individuals from doing things harmful to themselves. If I want to snort meth or smoke marijuana, that is my business. People should be free to buy dope, to be a prostitute, or eat their pet. There is no sense of societal responsibility. I would say that Libertarians believe that religion has no place in government or society in general.
But on the day after election day, when a libertarian candidate takes 3 percent of the swing vote, it's "Hey, why didn't you libertarians vote with us??"
Totally agree.
legalizing it won’t change the numbers of people who get buzzed(I am not one of them).
It will mean a more regulated product that purer, has less mildew or man made chemicals in them. You can’t imagine what smoked mildew does to a body.
It would also mean lower prices and greater availability to those in real need such as sufferers of AIDS, MS, Cancer, etc.
Taxes. A regulated product, much like cigarettes, will mean an additional stream of revenue for the dips in Sacramento.
Decriminialize something that is a personal decision. I cannot believe how many people are in jail for possession. Get real, they aren’t hurting anyone.
DUI/DWI- keep them in place. You drive 5 miles per hour on the 410, you are not just a pothead and a dumbass, you are danger to other drivers.
Criminal gangs and cartels. Can you say Buh-Bye as in Adios to South of the Border gangs? Get da via tambien en tu casa, erh, Pronto!(something like that. I only speak and read it, can’t write it)
How much money would we save in prosecuting a war that disappears? Just say No. It is the same in espaniol, NO.
There is a lot of Dineros and Dollares being wasted on our side for something we can’t stop and should be legitimized, regulated and taxed.
I agree with you to an extent, except as it pertains to Religion. I think that is what libertarians believe should be used to encourage you to not do things like smoke meth. Remember, there is a difference between not criminalizing and thinking you should do something. Religion and societal pressures in general are an acceptable way to deter individually destructive behavior without involving the government.
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