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Can Cities/States be sued under RICO for RED LIGHT and Speed cameras?
neidermeyer

Posted on 01/23/2010 1:12:58 PM PST by Neidermeyer

The local government here (Apopka, FL) along with the state is really bothering me and I would like to do something about it. My premise is that red light cameras are rigged to create revenue , usually by shortening yellow lights. In addition the vast majority of tickets are for right on red violations where the car slows to one or two mph (or actually stops but for a very short interval so the camera system measures a speed , any speed for the one second interval it uses as a base for the speed computation).

In my city they have a few red light cameras and the much larger city we connect to is greatly expanding their red light camera network. The tickets issued do not have a crime associated with them , they are analogous to a fine for your grass being unmowed or some other type of civil fine. HOWEVER the local police do have a person who reviews the camera footage and is part of the process ... so they are involved. In my case I can positively say the police department has had more than their fair share of dismissals and arrests of their officers for offenses that could be a basis for a RICO suit in my estimation. I contend that issuing citations that cannot be enforced through the legal system implying a legal threat to the person being fined is extortion.

There is plenty of evidence to show that these cameras and the companies that share in the booty have no interest in public safety..

Thoughts Everyone...


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: redlightcamera
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1 posted on 01/23/2010 1:12:58 PM PST by Neidermeyer
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To: Neidermeyer

No. The redlight cameras are there at the permisson of your state govt. The state cannot be sued under RICO unless it wants to.


2 posted on 01/23/2010 1:14:54 PM PST by Perdogg ("Is that a bomb in your pants, or are you excited to come to America?")
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To: Perdogg

I would rather get rid of RICO first, then work on my neighbors who think that red light cameras are a great idea, and who reward politicians who install them.


3 posted on 01/23/2010 1:18:04 PM PST by DariusBane (Even the Rocks shall cry out "Hobamma to the Highest")
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To: Neidermeyer

Oh, and to further disappoint you around half of the freedom loving members of Free Republic support red light cameras because their is no freedom more precious to them than insuring their own safety.


4 posted on 01/23/2010 1:19:44 PM PST by DariusBane (Even the Rocks shall cry out "Hobamma to the Highest")
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To: Neidermeyer

The state likely cannot be sued because of the 11th Amendment, but local governments may be liable under certain circumstances.
I don’t care for these rackets either.
Here in TX they try to enforce the red light tickets like any other ticket in some areas.
I can beat them in court but it’s a pain.


5 posted on 01/23/2010 1:21:21 PM PST by Clump (the tree of liberty is withering like a stricken fig tree)
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To: DariusBane

Studies are showing that these cameras often make us less safe.
People freak out and do stupid things rather than the safe thing when the light turns yellow during a close call situation.
Also, the rigging of the yellow light timing to catch more people has actually caused some fatalities.


6 posted on 01/23/2010 1:25:12 PM PST by Clump (the tree of liberty is withering like a stricken fig tree)
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To: Perdogg

Before going off half cocked and start sputtering and holding signs up in front of your city, do this. Do your due diligence.
Research the companies that your city uses for red light cameras. See if there are any case studies where that company has been sued for wrongful practice. Read through the case. It should be easy enough to understand the arguments.
Ask for a freedom of information request of how many camera tickets have been issued in your city. Ask how much money is collected, ask what fee or reimbursment the camera company or sometimes a monitoring company gets per camera. Ask as many questions as possible.
THEN see if your city has fallen into the same mistakes as the other cities in those suits. Then go to a lawyer and have him file on behalf of your community in civil court. Make sure one of the contingencies is a reversal of every ticket issued and a removal of those cameras from your city based on the findings. Also go to the local county govt. bureau of weights and measures. Ask if those cameras have been calibrated to all be measuring time equally. In cases I have heard the lights are shorter in some intersections than others. If those are basically a measuring device they shoul d be calibrated each and every one like gas pumps or scales at the grocery store.
Then take your story to the local press.
At least thats what I would do.


7 posted on 01/23/2010 1:26:22 PM PST by Walkingfeather
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To: Clump

Well red light cameras suck no doubt. Worthless, money raising POS contributing nothing to safety. I agree. But your neighbors want them so we are all screwed. Rico sucks also and allows the government to do all kinds of mischief. I don’t like any of it.


8 posted on 01/23/2010 1:27:19 PM PST by DariusBane (Even the Rocks shall cry out "Hobamma to the Highest")
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To: Neidermeyer

I heard that in Illinois there is a group of PO’ed citizens trying to legally get rid of the red light camera cash machines. Might try a search of the subject with Illinois and see if the people fighting it there are having any luck. I believe I saw this being discussed on FoxNews with the man who got fed up with the camera scam in his city. Story aired in the last few months. He was very determined and had other citizens helping him.


9 posted on 01/23/2010 1:28:05 PM PST by TheConservativeParty ("First they ignore you, then they laugh at you,then they fight you, then you WIN." Ghandi)
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To: Neidermeyer
There is a lawyer here in Houston that tried to sue over the red light camera issue, but I don't think he was successful. I think they were finally able to get the city to release their records about accidents that occur at red light camera intersections, so it may have some life left in it. (City wanted to keep the information a secret.)

A few years ago, the state did pass some legislation that requires a law enforcement officer to review the camera footage before a citation can be issued. Citations don't go on your driving record. The attorneys are Randall Kallinen and Paul Kubosh.

10 posted on 01/23/2010 1:29:13 PM PST by smokingfrog (You can't ignore your boss and expect to keep your job... www.filipthishouse2010.com)
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To: Neidermeyer
Did you receive a traffic citation?
11 posted on 01/23/2010 1:34:54 PM PST by verity (Obama Lies)
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To: Clump

I assume that any citation is in the name of the registered owner. How does the court prove that the person driving the car is that person? After all, it’s the driver that committed the infraction and the cameras can’t make an identification.


12 posted on 01/23/2010 1:36:56 PM PST by omni-scientist
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To: DariusBane
Oh, and to further disappoint you around half of the freedom loving members of Free Republic support red light cameras because their is no freedom more precious to them than insuring their own safety.

I used to commute year-round into downtown DC on my motorcycles and had to drive through a "protected" intersection near the Treasury building.

Since almost any car behind me tailgated, and the yellow lights were notoriously short, I always had to decide to try to run the yellow, and risk a red light ticket, or apply the binders and get run over from behind by a cage who was too close.

Thank goodness that the type of motorcycles I ride are harder to read by the radars and I did not ever get a ticket, even when I was still in the intersection when the yellow changed to red.

13 posted on 01/23/2010 1:48:37 PM PST by OldMissileer (Atlas, Titan, Minuteman, PK. Winners of the Cold War)
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To: Neidermeyer

Now it would be hazardous to ones health to walk up to a cop and smear a light coating of Vaseline on his sun glasses, he could be there and arrest you.
Now if one (hypothetically of course) were to go for a walk around their city with a walking stick in their hand that just happen to have a a swab of vaseline and casually (out of camera shot) wiped it across the lens, they would have taken many pictures but none identifiable. Now how often they check how clean the lens is? who knows but if it happened repeatedly they would have to post someone to watch for that. Thus undermining the cost savings of having a cop sit 24/7 at that corner.


14 posted on 01/23/2010 1:49:37 PM PST by Walkingfeather
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To: OldMissileer

You should quit worrying about going splat on somebodies windshield. You need to ensure that above all things you are compliant with the collective will of your neighbors. Even if that means your life! (sarcasm switch ON)


15 posted on 01/23/2010 1:53:05 PM PST by DariusBane (Even the Rocks shall cry out "Hobamma to the Highest")
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To: verity

Did you receive a traffic citation?
************************************
YES , about 6 months ago ,, refused to pay .. I won’t hear anything more on it .. almost 75% of such tickets go unpaid and they really can’t do anything about it.

My neighbor received one last month and paid ,, he was recovering from knee replacement surgery at the time , someone else (wife) was driving.

Originally the city had the yellows shortened but it appears that they are now within DOT guidelines on the timing.

I deliver medical supplies and put a lot of miles on my car , these cameras have me doing stupid things on a daily basis and will lead to me being involved in an accident.


16 posted on 01/23/2010 1:54:48 PM PST by Neidermeyer
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To: Neidermeyer

If you can prove that the yellow lights on those traffic signals are indeed shorter than what is required by law, then you probably have a case, albeit not under RICO. But if you find that the yellow lights are the length of time required by the law, you are most likely SOL.


17 posted on 01/23/2010 2:04:24 PM PST by pnh102 (Regarding liberalism, always attribute to malice what you think can be explained by stupidity. - Me)
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To: smokingfrog

There was a guy in Pheonix that put on a hallowen monkey mask and purposedly chalked up almost 40 camera speeding tickets. He beat all of them in court because a judge ruled that although it could be proven it was his car, there was no proof it was him driving.
See artcle here: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/09/08/20090908dpsmonkey0908.html

I would imagine that the same would hold true for redlight cameras.


18 posted on 01/23/2010 2:04:45 PM PST by Amazedbyitall
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To: Neidermeyer

The congress in Washington is a racketeer group, and some states as well, but crooks aren’t going to make laws that let citizens get them for being crooks. So you will not be able to sue under RICO because it protects the crooks who made the RICO laws.


19 posted on 01/23/2010 2:04:52 PM PST by Leftism is Mentally Deranged (liberalism = serious mental deficiency)
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To: Neidermeyer
There is also a provision for private parties to sue. A "person damaged in his business or property" can sue one or more "racketeers." The plaintiff must prove the existence of a "criminal enterprise."

That would be pretty difficult.

20 posted on 01/23/2010 2:07:55 PM PST by Batrachian
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