Posted on 12/15/2009 11:16:26 PM PST by Swordmaker
“I don’t know why you can’t get it. “
I don’t know why you can’t understand the history and the intended government of this country.
If the USSC decides the Bill of Rights are null and void and the Constitution is a dead letter de jure, would you meekly submit?
I’m betting you would.
If the USSC decides the Bill of Rights are null and void and the Constitution is a dead letter de jure, would you meekly submit?
Well..., I'm betting you'll buy an Apple Macintosh and come on this Free Republic Board and apologize to all Apple Macintosh users and say you absolutely love it and you're sorry for all your previous statements -- before -- you'll see the Supreme Court do that... :-)
Of course, since we both know that neither of those two "supposed events" will ever happen, we're just talking about how ridiculous of a story we can make up.
“- before — you’ll see the Supreme Court do that... :-) “
They’ve done that to parts of it in the past.
You can’t predict the future, but we can see the trendline of the recent past.
“Of course, since we both know that neither of those two “supposed events” will ever happen, we’re just talking about how ridiculous of a story we can make up.”
Your meek submission is noted.
Your meek submission is noted.
Your robust imagination is noted... LOL...
“Your robust imagination is noted... LOL...”
Have you read this forum or do you only exist here to talk about Apple?
Have you read this forum or do you only exist here to talk about Apple?
Well, it is one of my two favorite subjects mentioned on my FReeper home page. :-)
However, in my ten years and 26,000 posts here, I think I've covered a wide range of issues and various topics, too.
BUT, something completely off topic of the Apple subject and just to show you that I do read "other threads"... LOL...
This is a thread that all FReepers should be aware of and I'm enthusiastically in support of it. I'm glad to see it posted.
[ ... now remember, I did tell you it's off-topic of the Apple stuff... ]
12/11/2009 | Jim Robinson
Posted on December 11, 2009 7:57:16 PM CST by Jim Robinson
Free Republic is a fringe right-wing Christian fundamentalist site... or so they say... and they might even be right.
We don't go for any of that godless left-wing big government socialist malarkey. And we do put our faith and trust in God, not government. We are pro-God, pro-Life, pro-Family, pro-Country and pro-Liberty.
We do not believe that government or science knows what's best for us or our children. We will make our own decisions thank you very much.
Every once in a while some group of posters get together and try to bend Free Republic to their will. Now, we tend to be pretty free-wheeling around here and will take a lot of guff and a lot of obnoxious insults from a lot of people, but eventually a breaking point is reached.
For example, when a group of RINO lovers recently banded together to try to force FR to accept an abortionist/gay rights RINO as our presidential candidate, they soon found themselves on the outs.
And a few years ago a group of evolutionists tried to force FR over to their way of thinking and they soon found themselves on the outs.
FR is a pro-God, pro-Creator, pro-Life, pro-Liberty site.
And now we have yet another group of Darwinists trying to have their Darwinist way with us. Well, as I've said before what doesn't kill us will only make us stronger.
Darwin Central has again declared war on FR. They have ping lists and email lists and will try to pull away as many FReepers as they possibly can. So be it. Those who would rather go with Darwin, please go. I sure as hell won't try to stop you.
FR will remain a pro-God, pro-Life, pro-Liberty, pro-Creator conservative site.
We wholeheartedly believe that our unalienable rights are a gift from God our Creator not from man or government. And no man, no government will ever deprive us of same.
Keep your powder dry.
So, there ya go... I do read other things... :-)
” This is a thread that all FReepers should be aware of and I’m enthusiastically in support of it. I’m glad to see it posted. “
Pity you don’t respect and defend the Constitution. You clearly don’t understand how the current government has deviated from it.
Pity you don’t respect and defend the Constitution. You clearly don’t understand how the current government has deviated from it.
Are you off... grazing in the pastures of your imagination again... :-)
“Are you off... grazing in the pastures of your imagination again... :-)”
There is apparently no point where you will stop bowing to government presumed authority. You have no line in the sand or limit. You claim our government is the one the Founders intended, but do you seriously think they risked their lives to form a government that would force us to buy health insurance, micromanage every aspect of our lives, and tax us and future generations to pay for our own slavery?
King George did far less.
Pray there are enough to stand and say “no further!” We already know you won’t be one of them.
There is apparently no point where you will stop bowing to government presumed authority. You have no line in the sand or limit. You claim our government is the one the Founders intended, but do you seriously think they risked their lives to form a government that would force us to buy health insurance, micromanage every aspect of our lives, and tax us and future generations to pay for our own slavery?
The founding fathers gave us a government that has processes and mechanisms built into it for doing whatever the people decide is good for their government (that they are under).
Now, admittedly (and it's always the case, no matter what) -- there are always going to be people who don't like what the process of the government that the founding fathers gave us -- ends up getting (for themselves).
And sure, I recognize that many conservatives don't like the results that are coming out of this government and the processes that were built into it. But, that's always the case -- whether it be conservatives (at one time) and liberals (at another time) or any other group at various other times. That's always going to happen and then whomever those groups are will say that they are "disenfranchised" from what they think is right, under that government.
For example, the last election... did I want Obama, did I vote for him, did I think that he was the best choice -- no in all cases.
But, guess what? I lost the issue of who was going to be President because 10 million more of the voting electorate voted for him than the numbers that voted for our candidate.
AND... that is exactly the "process" that the founding fathers gave us (along with our own modifications and amendments) -- even when we don't like the "results" of that process. That's it and that's what we got.
The problem is not with the founding fathers or the government they gave us -- it's with the people who are voting and influencing the system of government that we have. When their numbers and influence are greater than ours (and that's the way it turns out in many instances) -- then you end up with "results" that you don't like.
But, it's not a "perversion" of the system that does that -- it's the fact that more think differently than the conservatives do. That's the problem.
So, I would advise, for a solution to that problem -- is -- we get more conservatives in order that our numbers are great enough to change the "results" for this government, the way we see as being the right way.
But, as an aside here, what we're facing is the inexorable move towards a one-world government. And that's not all bad, although I'm having nothing to do with it and I won't vote for it.
It's not all bad, because there are two different one-world governments coming. The first one I want nothing to do with, but it's the second one-world government which will defeat the first one-world government. And it's that second one that I'm hoping hurries up and gets here. :-)
It's that particular one-world government that I'm looking forward to ruling over the entire world -- and it will change the Constitution of the United States so that many things won't be in there anymore...
“The founding fathers gave us a government that has processes and mechanisms built into it for doing whatever the people decide is good for their government (that they are under).”
Within the limitations of the Constitution. There is a mechanism for changing THAT, but it is difficult. The more common approach used by Congress, the Courts, and the Executive is just to ignore the thing.
We are not supposed to be a Democracy or a the Oligarchy we are now.
” But, as an aside here, what we’re facing is the inexorable move towards a one-world government. And that’s not all bad, although I’m having nothing to do with it and I won’t vote for it.
It’s not all bad, because there are two different one-world governments coming. The first one I want nothing to do with, but it’s the second one-world government which will defeat the first one-world government. And it’s that second one that I’m hoping hurries up and gets here. :-)
It’s that particular one-world government that I’m looking forward to ruling over the entire world — and it will change the Constitution of the United States so that many things won’t be in there anymore...”
I presume you are talking about your quasi-Biblical beliefs of a world theocratic government led by Christ and not some more “enlightened” secular government. We aren’t supposed to stop our lives because we think the End is Nigh! Read Paul. Every generation has thought that their time was the end time spoken of in the Revelation of John.
We are not supposed to be a Democracy or a the Oligarchy we are now.
Things just didn't happen all by themselves. Whatever changed happened from a big and long list of things, from wars, to Supreme Court Decisions, to Amendments, to laws enacted, to people's changed attitudes and views (and much more)... it all contributes.
I'm just saying you've got what we have right now, because that's what everyone went along with for years and the many smaller and incremental changes that the voting electorate thought were good at the time.
It's like the cartoon Pogo says... "We have met the enemy and he is us."
I presume you are talking about your quasi-Biblical beliefs of a world theocratic government led by Christ and not some more “enlightened” secular government. We aren’t supposed to stop our lives because we think the End is Nigh!
I am talking about the one-world government set up by the Messiah of Israel, when He sets foot on this earth and rules over the entire world from Jerusalem. That will include the United States. And I'm wondering how a lot of FReepers will be thinking about that when it happens... :-)
But, so far, I haven't put my life on hold for what is to come. What I see is that I probably won't even be able to finish out my life before it happens right in front of my face, because I've been watching this inexorable movement towards that one-world government, for 50 years, thus far, and it's getting put into place right now.
I'm not helping it, but it's happening without my help... :-) And that's the "reality" of the situation as it's staring us in the face right now.
Oh... by the way... are we still talking about Apple...? LOL...
If not, perhaps another thread on the topic of the coming one-world government would be in order... :-)
“Things just didn’t happen all by themselves. Whatever changed happened from a big and long list of things, from wars, to Supreme Court Decisions, to Amendments, to laws enacted, to people’s changed attitudes and views (and much more)... it all contributes.”
You are correct that this is not something that has happened overnight. You are incorrect in your assumption that we have to continue to “take it”. For someone who presents himself as an evangelical dispensationalist, you respond to the argument that there actually is a “right” and “wrong” apart from a court with insults.
“I am talking about the one-world government set up by the Messiah of Israel, when He sets foot on this earth and rules over the entire world from Jerusalem. That will include the United States.”
This is all based on Revelations 20. Jesus said that his Kingdom was not of this Earth (John 18:36).
You are correct that this is not something that has happened overnight. You are incorrect in your assumption that we have to continue to “take it”. For someone who presents himself as an evangelical dispensationalist, you respond to the argument that there actually is a “right” and “wrong” apart from a court with insults.
I have no idea why you don't get it. I've made it abundantly clear that the legal system (one of the three branches of the government, being the Judicial Branch) makes those decisions and as far as the legal system is concerned, that's it -- it's done.
I've already given all the "provisos" regarding that, so there is no use repeating the provisos here.
Perhaps your problem is right here...
Romans Chapter 13 1 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have praise from the same. 4 For he is God's minister to you for good. But if you do evil, be afraid; for he does not bear the sword in vain; for he is God's minister, an avenger to execute wrath on him who practices evil. 5 Therefore you must be subject, not only because of wrath but also for conscience' sake. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God's ministers attending continually to this very thing. 7 Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor. 8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law.
This is all based on Revelations 20. Jesus said that his Kingdom was not of this Earth (John 18:36).
Sorry, but you don't understand Jesus then... LOL...
Jesus comes in "two parts" -- Part One and Part Two... you mix up Part One with Part Two... :-)
In Part One, Jesus said His Kingdom was not of this world, because He did not come in "Part One" to set up the Kingdom that the Jews had been told all along would be set up. They expected it and they asked when He was going to do it.
Now, in Part Two -- that's when Jesus comes to set up the Kingdom, on this earth -- an earthly kingdom, ruling and reigning from the Throne of David, from Jerusalem over all the nations of the world.
Too many have a "Part One Jesus" -- thereby completely forgetting the "Part Two Jesus"... :-)
AND..., by the way, Revelation 20 is the same Bible, which is the infallible and inerrant Word of God, which speaks to all things and to all dcotrine and to all facts, exactly and without error.
So, this same Bible speaks of the Kingdom of God in many places, Revelation 20, just being one of the places... let's see what it says, because it will happen exactly like the Bible tells us it will happen...
Revelation Chapter 20 1 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while. 4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. 7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. 11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
“I have no idea why you don’t get it. I’ve made it abundantly clear that the legal system (one of the three branches of the government, being the Judicial Branch) makes those decisions and as far as the legal system is concerned, that’s it — it’s done.”
I don’t understand why you don’t get that I’m talking about actual “right” and “wrong”. Just as our rights do not come from government, right does not come from a lawyer.
“Perhaps your problem is right here...”
I guess that was the Founder’s problem too and the Revolution was a sin. King George III was the “governing authority.” Resistance to Obama’s evil is a sin, then? Paul presumes the “rulers” are forces of good there. Not doers of evil themselves.
“Sorry, but you don’t understand Jesus then... LOL...”
What arrogant presumption. Keep on LOLing to yourself.... ( I believe you accused me of having Alzheimer’s at one point? How Christian of you.) Many Christians are not pre-pre-whatevers. The great throne in Revelation will not be on Earth until we are judged.
” 31”When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34”Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37”Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40”The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’
41”Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44”They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45”He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46”Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.” - Matthew 25:31-46
Sounds like the 2nd Coming and End will be quick. The Kingdom believers are promised is in heaven. It doesn’t sound like some governmental apparatus will be formed.
Paul presumes the “rulers” are forces of good there. Not doers of evil themselves.
Nope, not at all, because the Bible makes it clear that God controls all things and he actually installs the forces of evil to carry out His judgment too, upon people and upon other nations.
So sorry, God controls all things, no matter who or what they are.
And with Paul, he was under the control of the Roman occupation forces, having been imprisoned by the Romans, held in chains, and he did not think of them as a righteous government at all.
But, he advised, against the wishes of many to rebel against Rome (which was a big mistake as it resulted in over a million Jews killed and the destruction of their Temple, too) -- because that is not God's will.
And that's also why Jesus told His disciples that His Kingdom was not of this world, during "Part One" -- or else they would start fighting the Roman and their evil government. Jesus did not want those who are His, to fight against the Romans and overthrow that government. He wanted to make known the Salvation that He has for all.
Jesus also makes known that it is "He" who will destroy the enemy, not His followers. And He will do so upon His return.
Paul makes it clear what God's will is, and the Bible makes clear what God's will is in regards to these things... :-)
Sorry if you disagree with God, and God's Apostle, Paul.
Sounds like the 2nd Coming and End will be quick. The Kingdom believers are promised is in heaven. It doesn’t sound like some governmental apparatus will be formed.
Nope, wrong again... :-)
You read a part that has to do exactly with the coming of Jesus, the Messiah of Israel to the earth, at the very point of Him setting up the Kingdom on this earth.
There are many people still alive on this earth when He returns. These peoples and the nations are separated into the two groups that you see -- it's called the "Sheep and Goat Judgment" and it determines who, among the "still living" on the earth -- will continue "alive" into the Kingdom that He sets up, and who will be cast into outer darkness, being removed from the living on this earth.
When Jesus sets up His kingdom on this earth to rule and reign over all the nations, including the United States -- He will make sure that no one who helped or took part in the one-world government (being set up now) or has the "mark" -- will remain alive in His kingdom.
Here's a sample of another prophecy teachers account of the Sheep and Goat Judgment. There are plenty of good and well-known Bible-believing teachers and pastors who give the same thing -- and the only point of saying that -- is so that it's clear that this is not some "private opinion" of mine and something that is totally unknown... :-)
The Sheep And Goat Judgment [go down the page...]
Matt. 25:31 leaves no doubt as to the timing on this one. It begins "When the Son of Man comes … " and goes on to talk about the Lord setting up His throne on Earth after His return for the Judgment of the Nations, actually a judgment of Gentile tribulation survivors. The Lord doesn't judge nations in the eternal sense, only individuals. The Greek word here is ethnos, and means "people of every kind." They'll be judged by how they treated "His brothers" during the Great Tribulation. It's called the Sheep and Goat judgment, with the sheep being those who helped His brothers through the horrific times just past and goats being those who didn't.
Some say His brothers are believers, whether Jew or Gentile, and others say they're specifically Jews, but the most important point is that these tribulation survivors aren't being judged by their works. Their works are being cited as evidence of their faith, as in James 2:18. To give aid to a believer, especially a Jew, during the Great Tribulation will take even more courage than it did in Hitler's Germany, and will be an offense punishable by death. Only a follower of Jesus, certain of His eternal destiny, would dare do it or even want to. Those who helped "His brothers" will have demonstrated their faith by their works and will be ushered live into the Kingdom. Those who refused to help will have condemned themselves to the outer darkness by this evidence of their lack of faith.
All three illustrations teach the same lesson. Surviving believers go live into the Kingdom. Some will have relied exclusively on the Holy Spirit's gift of faith, as in the Parable of the 10 Virgins. Others will have multiplied their faith by studying and sharing His word, as in the Parable of the Talents. Still others have put their faith into action, risking their lives in the bargain. They're the Sheep of the Sheep and Goat Judgment. But just like it's been throughout history, all are saved by faith.
Isaiah 9:6-7
For unto us a Child is born.
Unto us a Son is given;
And the government will be upon His shoulder.
And His name will be called
Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Of the increase of His government and peace
There will be no end,
Upon the throne of David and over His kingdom,
To order it and establish it with judgment and justice
From that time forward, even forever.
The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.
Oh, and one more thing... these things — government, peace, kingdom, judgment, justice — all are “government operations by a government apparatus”... :-)
“Nope, not at all, because the Bible makes it clear that God controls all things and he actually installs the forces of evil to carry out His judgment too, upon people and upon other nations.”
So, we should submit to evil doers and the Founders sinned. I see.
“Sorry if you disagree with God, and God’s Apostle, Paul.”
I don’t. I disagree with your reading, your understanding, and your overweening arrogance. Perhaps it’s just my Alzheimer’s kicking in, right?
Interestingly enough, the Sheep and the Goat parable you quote is often used to disprove dispensationalism and the 1830’s era millennial movement to which you belong.
“Oh, and one more thing... these things — government, peace, kingdom, judgment, justice — all are “government operations by a government apparatus”... :-)”
So, Heaven has a bureaucracy?
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