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To: Favor Center
You were saying ...

Paul presumes the “rulers” are forces of good there. Not doers of evil themselves.

Nope, not at all, because the Bible makes it clear that God controls all things and he actually installs the forces of evil to carry out His judgment too, upon people and upon other nations.

So sorry, God controls all things, no matter who or what they are.

And with Paul, he was under the control of the Roman occupation forces, having been imprisoned by the Romans, held in chains, and he did not think of them as a righteous government at all.

But, he advised, against the wishes of many to rebel against Rome (which was a big mistake as it resulted in over a million Jews killed and the destruction of their Temple, too) -- because that is not God's will.

And that's also why Jesus told His disciples that His Kingdom was not of this world, during "Part One" -- or else they would start fighting the Roman and their evil government. Jesus did not want those who are His, to fight against the Romans and overthrow that government. He wanted to make known the Salvation that He has for all.

Jesus also makes known that it is "He" who will destroy the enemy, not His followers. And He will do so upon His return.

Paul makes it clear what God's will is, and the Bible makes clear what God's will is in regards to these things... :-)

Sorry if you disagree with God, and God's Apostle, Paul.


Sounds like the 2nd Coming and End will be quick. The Kingdom believers are promised is in heaven. It doesn’t sound like some governmental apparatus will be formed.

Nope, wrong again... :-)

You read a part that has to do exactly with the coming of Jesus, the Messiah of Israel to the earth, at the very point of Him setting up the Kingdom on this earth.

There are many people still alive on this earth when He returns. These peoples and the nations are separated into the two groups that you see -- it's called the "Sheep and Goat Judgment" and it determines who, among the "still living" on the earth -- will continue "alive" into the Kingdom that He sets up, and who will be cast into outer darkness, being removed from the living on this earth.

When Jesus sets up His kingdom on this earth to rule and reign over all the nations, including the United States -- He will make sure that no one who helped or took part in the one-world government (being set up now) or has the "mark" -- will remain alive in His kingdom.


Here's a sample of another prophecy teachers account of the Sheep and Goat Judgment. There are plenty of good and well-known Bible-believing teachers and pastors who give the same thing -- and the only point of saying that -- is so that it's clear that this is not some "private opinion" of mine and something that is totally unknown... :-)

The Sheep And Goat Judgment [go down the page...]

Matt. 25:31 leaves no doubt as to the timing on this one.  It begins "When the Son of Man comes … " and goes on to talk about the Lord setting up His throne on Earth after His return for the Judgment of the Nations, actually a judgment of Gentile tribulation survivors.  The Lord doesn't judge nations in the eternal sense, only individuals.  The Greek word here is ethnos, and means "people of every kind."  They'll be judged by how they treated "His brothers" during the Great Tribulation. It's called the Sheep and Goat judgment, with the sheep being those who helped His brothers through the horrific times just past and goats being those who didn't.

Some say His brothers are believers, whether Jew or Gentile, and others say they're specifically Jews, but the most important point is that these tribulation survivors aren't being judged by their works.  Their works are being cited as evidence of their faith, as in James 2:18. To give aid to a believer, especially a Jew, during the Great Tribulation will take even more courage than it did in Hitler's Germany, and will be an offense punishable by death. Only a follower of Jesus, certain of His eternal destiny, would dare do it or even want to.   Those who helped "His brothers" will have demonstrated their faith by their works and will be ushered live into the Kingdom.  Those who refused to help will have condemned themselves to the outer darkness by this evidence of their lack of faith.

All three illustrations teach the same lesson.  Surviving believers go live into the Kingdom. Some will have relied exclusively on the Holy Spirit's gift of faith, as in the Parable of the 10 Virgins.  Others will have multiplied their faith by studying and sharing His word, as in the Parable of the Talents. Still others have put their faith into action, risking their lives in the bargain. They're the Sheep of the Sheep and Goat Judgment.   But just like it's been throughout history, all are saved by faith. 


276 posted on 12/21/2009 8:11:22 AM PST by Star Traveler (At Christmas - remember to keep "Christ" in the One-World Government that we look forward to)
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To: Favor Center
Oh... one more thing about the "government apparatus" that you referred to... you didn't see my FReeper home page then... :-)
    Isaiah 9:6-7

    For unto us a Child is born.
    Unto us a Son is given;
    And the government will be upon His shoulder.
    And His name will be called
    Wonderful, Counselor, Mighty God,
    Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

    Of the increase of His government and peace
    There will be no end,
    Upon the throne of David and over His kingdom,
    To order it and establish it with judgment and justice
    From that time forward, even forever.
    The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

277 posted on 12/21/2009 8:17:47 AM PST by Star Traveler (At Christmas - remember to keep "Christ" in the One-World Government that we look forward to)
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To: Star Traveler

“Nope, not at all, because the Bible makes it clear that God controls all things and he actually installs the forces of evil to carry out His judgment too, upon people and upon other nations.”

So, we should submit to evil doers and the Founders sinned. I see.

“Sorry if you disagree with God, and God’s Apostle, Paul.”

I don’t. I disagree with your reading, your understanding, and your overweening arrogance. Perhaps it’s just my Alzheimer’s kicking in, right?

Interestingly enough, the Sheep and the Goat parable you quote is often used to disprove dispensationalism and the 1830’s era millennial movement to which you belong.


279 posted on 12/21/2009 9:13:15 AM PST by Favor Center (Targets Up! Hold hard and favor center!)
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