Posted on 11/29/2009 6:29:41 PM PST by Jonah Hex
Time for a Sunday night gun porn vanity. Now that .380 ACP is becoming more available, I'm considering another .380 ACP semi-auto for concealed carry/range plinking. I already have a Kel Tec P3AT, but a Bersa Thunder .380 caught my eye in the local funshop the other day. An Argentinian knock-off of the PPK, it looked and felt like a quality piece for the amount (about $299).
One down-side I see is the magazine disconnect. Any input from my fellow firearms enthusiasts?
That's another one of those old sayings, "A 25 is good, if you don't have a real gun."
I have owned maybe 8 or 9 Walther pocket pistols. Most of them Model PP in .32 as they were sold very reasonably as police surplus at a time when I had plenty of money. Also a couple of American made PPks .380s in stainless. Also an American made TPh in .22LR. Also several real copies made by Manurhin in France and close copies made in Hungary.
I have also had a couple of target model PP (actually I think the call them Sports models) made by Manurhin (who most people know actually made nearly all the post war Walther PP. PPK models and shipped them to Germany where they were stamped “made in Germany).
Anyway, all every single one was accurate. I had one U.S. Made stainless .380 which would rarely jam and the TPh, also made in America was a real jammer, tho oddly when it did fire it was very accurate.
Yep, it's about the same size as my Samsung i760 phone! I can completely cover it with my hand. And it's only 2 ounces more than the cell phone. Just don't accept to have better than 10" accuracy at 10 yards, rapid fire. But considering the average man is 16" wide, it'll get the job done for most critical distances.
My pockets always contain an SOG Flash II - as quick as a switchblade to open and nearly indestructible (interestingly, switchblades are illegal in the State of Washington, even if you have a CWL; even CA allows CWL holders the right to carry a switchblade!).
I love the Kel-Tec designs. George Kelgren is a genius! And I’m waiting for the new PMR-30 to be released; 30 rounds of 22 WMR in a full-size semi-auto pistol. I know many will scoff at the 22 WMR, but the reality is that the 22 WMR is as powerful as the 5.7mm from FN, the same caliber used to kill 14 at Fort Hood. Yes, you may need more than one shot, but if you miss, you have 30 more tries to get it right. THAT is an amazing thing!
That’s a very nice pocket pistol. In my case, the Walther PPKs in stainless was one of the best availaable at the time. Mine has the Interarms stamp on the slide, but if I recall correctly, they were merely the importer. The slim profile made it very easy to conceal - a valuable trait considering that I was living in the SF Bay area at the time.
I had a CCW permit and had a Colt Pocket Ponylite 380 in my front pocket at an ATM machine when 5 “youts” with identical red bandannas on their heads and with lots of gold bling pulled into the handicapped parking spot directly behind me and began arguing about who would “get’im”. All I thought about was I’ve got this little 7-shot pistol in my pocket and I had a Glock 30 45ACP back in the car. I think shot placement on humans is more important than caliber so a larger capacity 380 wuld have made me more confident with potentially 5 opponents. As it worked out the machine was dispensing my money and ATM card which I grabbed and sprinted back to my car. Before I could grab the Glock they pealed out of the parking lot and were gone. All that happened in Florida. I had several potential self defense situations with predatory humans including a home invasion when I heard it all happening and the BG ran when he saw I had retrieved my 44 SPL revolver.
Now I live in the Colorado Rockies west of Denver and have not had a single human incident. That has been replaced by black bear incidents. In town there is always the human predator danger, but when I get home I could encounter bears, elk or moose. Two aggressive bear encounters in 10 years. Looking at either 10mm or 4-inch 41 magnum as something tha could handle both threat types.
Yeppers - that SIG would be my choice if I didn’t already have the PPKs. Good thing I boight a bunch of ammo for it before it got scarce. Looks like supply is starting to catch up, though.
You’re obviously a man of taste. Wish I had had the money back then to collect like that. My PPKs has the Interarms stamp - I think that they wer the importer, not the manufacturer. Bought mine back in what - 1974. I think? At the San Francisco Gun Exchange, of all places. That would make it 35 years old, not 32. How time flies...
I've had a .32 and a .380 and it's just not fun for me. I don't want to have to stick it in their ear to damage them. I was a medic in the Army and witnessed an autopsy on a wino with a .32 about 1 inch into his brain. His hair was singed so it was fired point blank. He walked to the ER before dying. I shot my own .380 and it bounced off a telephone pole more than once. .32 ricocheted every time off the pole.
I agree that being shot with a .380 wouldn't be pleasant, but I just personally prefer to do more damage with one shot. Sometimes that's all you get. Without a brain shot, I think many perps would just keep coming. Especially if they are on meth.
I see, just a troll to stir up sh*t and not add to the conversation. At least you admitted it.
I've had a .32 and a .380 and it's just not fun for me. I don't want to have to stick it in their ear to damage them. I was a medic in the Army and witnessed an autopsy on a wino with a .32 about 1 inch into his brain. His hair was singed so it was fired point blank. He walked to the ER before dying. I shot my own .380 and it bounced off a telephone pole more than once. .32 ricocheted every time off the pole.
I'm gonna have to call BS. Every test of the 32 ACP with FMJs show they will pass FBI penetration tests, and if you look at the Fiocchi I linked to above, and gel tests in 9mm by the same person you'll see that the 32 ACP penetrates as much as most 9mm hollow points.
People survive 45 ACPs to the head, others drop dead immediately from a 22 LR. If you were a medic then you would know that better than anybody - it's not the caliber that matters, it's the placement, and a CNS hit. With 15" of penetration, the FMJ Fiocchi 32 ACP will get your CNS, if you do your job.
The things to consider is the weight of the bullet vs the velocity of the bullet. A slow large bullet won't deform as much as a smaller faster bullet so the smaller faster bullet may do more damage than a slower heavier bullet. Most reloading manuals have a foot pounds chart in the back that will tell you the info you are seeking if you know the weight and speed of your cartridge.
I’d recommend it over a Walther (min $560) on price savings; likewise, it’s accurate, many safety features
and from reviews Argentina has fewer problems with semi-autos than Brazil (Taurus).
Find out if this gun comes with an extra mag. They can be expensive and hard to find for Bersas. Supposedly they are shipping with extra mags now.
Consider also Bersa Thunder Plus 15 rounder, which can be harder to find...my personal fav, I’m not comfy with only 8 rounds loaded in .380 acp.
Also will only carry it feeding an adrenalized diet of Buffalo Bore +P 90 grain hollow point and + P 100 grain Flat nosed hard cast for expansion and penetration respectively. Like a Walther, +P will wear down the components if used excessively.
Same scale size guns to consider in 9mm is the thin Walther PPS and Glock 26. The Glock 26 gives you options with numerous mag capacities along with mag sleeves and extensions.
I call BS on you if you think a .32 is worth spit. I call BS when you say a head shot with a .45 won't take your head off your shoulders. Maybe they were shot in the tip of their nose. And what is with all the FMJ talk. No one I know uses FMJ for protection. FMJ is for target practice. HP or soft nose is for protection if you don't go all the way with the new frangible's.
I was a medic and have witnessed many gun injuries. I'm telling you I shot a phone pole with a .32, 15 feet away and every shot bounced off the pole. Not one penetration. I sold the gun. It's not even a purse gun for a woman. The .380 is only slightly better.
You lose all credibility when you say a .32 is as good as a 9mm. I'm not in love with a 9mm, but it is way better than a .32. These are gang banger guns that burn up the ghetto's. They shoot each other every weekend and are back in school Monday. I would rather have a .22 LR than a .32. At least you get the penetration.( and more shots)
No, I don't want to be shot with anything, but I'm just talking about raw power. Shooting someone with a .45 in the kneecap wouldn't be as good as shooting someone with a .380 in the head, that is true. But shooting someone with a .380 in the knee probably wouldn't even keep them from slapping the sh#t out of you before you got off another shot. In Texas, you have some "big ole boys" that take alot of killin. My daughter is a Sheriff Deputy and has seen many perps shot multiple times with small bullets and lived. 9 hits with a 9mm and it still takes 2 officers to take a guy down killing his wife while on meth, will make you pay attention to the size gun you carry. When I pull a gun, I plan on winning. It's not a game. I don't want a pencil hole, I want meat and guts flying. You may not always be able to make a head shot.
Now that we have settled the small caliber against the large caliber pistol question, we can move on to the tried and true .308 against the .223 for the military question. You get one guess what I pick. My M1A Springfield is the only gun I will never sell. This same ground has been covered about 150 times in the last few years. Same people, same comments. All the points have been made multiple times. I could have started the thread off with a bunch of numbers of foot pounds of muzzle energy and retained energy down range and such, but it usually get a reactions when you just say small caliber's pistols suck. A good knife will do more damage.
Yes, you are a troll. Your stated purpose in this thread was to stir up controversy. And then you get upset when called out on it - that is, defacto, the actions of a troll, pure and simple.
By the way, trolls usually refer to some self-referential "expertise", such as the number of firearms they own, or how long they've been shooting - you know, things that cannot be verified. Notice I post to actual news links, or 3rd party photographed tests? Not some unverifiable facts that would fit in with the way the UEA conducts climate research...
Your errors in post 52 show your lack of experience or knowledge. Not to mention your insane claim that a 22 LR will out-penetrate a 32 ACP round. The facts show you to be completely wrong.
As far as "no one carries an FMJ for self defense" then you really are ignorant. For smaller calibers you do NOT carry hollow points because you do not have the penetration often required. There is no disputing a 32 ACP FMJ will penetrate more than the FBI requirements. I posted the links showing as much earlier in this thread and in this very post, where you can see photos of gelatin tests. It will perforate a person, and thus can make a CNS strike like other, more powerful calibers.
As for the rest of your post, please re-read what I posted and you'll realize your own straw men simply fail to rise to the occasion.
Bye, troll!
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