Signed Certificate of Live Birth for BO

[rocco55]

I received a signed COLB this AM. It is in a PDF format. I cannot find how to paste it into the post ? I don't now if it's real, but appears to be from a law firm last night at approx. 11:30 PM.

Does anyone know if a PDF file can be posted ?

[BP2]

Notice how there's no Certificate Number on this latest Obama birth certificate.

Here's the Nordyke twins COLB for comparison of signatures from the local registrar, DATE STAMPS, and other items:

Name	Location of Birth	Birth Cert #	Date/Time Born
Barack Hussein Obama II	Kapiolani Medical Center ?	151-61-10641?	Aug. 4, 1961 7:24 pm ?
Susan Elizabeth Nordyke	Kapiolani Medical Center	151-61-10637	Aug. 5, 1961 2:12 pm
Gretchen Carter Nordyke	Kapiolani Medical Center	151-61-10638	Aug. 5, 1961 2:17 pm

Name	Location of Birth	Birth Cert #	Date/Time Born
Barack Hussein Obama II	Kapiolani Medical Center ?	151-61-10641?	Aug. 4, 1961 7:24 pm ?
Susan Elizabeth Nordyke	Kapiolani Medical Center	151-61-10637	Aug. 5, 1961 2:12 pm
Gretchen Carter Nordyke	Kapiolani Medical Center	151-61-10638	Aug. 5, 1961 2:17 pm

[Genoa]

Hey, the boxes next to the signatures look like they had marks deleted from them. Look at the “parent” and “M.D.” boxes!

[Genoa]

And the “yes” box in field 7e looks like a handwritten X was deleted from it too. FAIL!

[MHGinTN]

Check out the eights typed on the exhibit ... they were all made by the same typewriter or process so the inclusion of the 1980’s policy/statute reference at the bottom is an ‘anomoly to’ the original text, if the exhibit is of an original 1961 docuemtn to which the statute reference was supposedly added much later.

[MHGinTN]

That reminds me, my CCP needs to be renewed soon ...

[BIGLOOK]

The mother's and the father's signatures are not on the document, only Madelyn's as informant.

This format in no way matches my son's Certificate, doesn't have a seal and doesn't have 'State of Hawaii, Department of Health, Research & Statistics Office' in the upper left hand corner.

Rather good facsimile but suspect.

[Vendome]

lol

[bvw]

To me, all three signatures and the two dates look like the same hand wrote them. But who knows?

[SeaHawkFan]

They aren’[t even close to being the same. Just look at the ‘M’s of the two first names.

[LucyT]

... to yet another bc.

Check out BIGLOOK's comments, too.

.

[ShadowAce]

Would the father actually be listed as “Sr.”?

[MHGinTN]

Look at the formation of the "n" in the two signatures ... when the hand does not lift from the paper, the natural motion is distinctive and the "n" is duplicated in both signatures.

Do a little experiment with someone having common letters in their name and to your name ... write your full name then have someone write your full name right below that, then you write the other person's full name below their writing of your name.
When you locate a letter within the name which is common to your name and the other person's name, you will note that you wrote that letter the same pressure and sweep in your signature and the one you wrote of the other person's name.

[bvw]

I did look at the m’s — and you are wrong. The basic stroke lengths and arcs are the same in all five cases.

If you want to see examples of truly different sigs — see the twins.

It’s possible that the purported Obama record is actually signed by three different people. Just not likely on the basis of the high similarity between the THREE signatures.

On thing that gives me pause is that I’d think even a half-decent forger could forge sigs better.

[BIGLOOK]

HRS [§338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State. (a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.

(b) Proof of legal residency shall be submitted to the director of health in any manner that the director shall deem appropriate. The director of health may also adopt any rules pursuant to chapter 91 that he or she may deem necessary or proper to prevent fraudulent applications for birth certificates and to require any further information or proof of events necessary for completion of a birth certificate.

(c) The fee for each application for registration shall be established by rule adopted pursuant to chapter 91. [L 1982, c 182, §1]

Addenda to the last line.

[bvw]

Maybe I should build a forgery machine -- an adapted pantograph, that would produce variant signatures that wouldn't be so obviously by the same hand. Probably already been done.

[bvw]

Back in the days ... I had one friend whose Master’s Project was on finding the fingerprint of handwriting, another whose Doctoral Thesis was on classifying walks — not exactly fingerprinting, but his work could have been used as a starting point to develop a way of fingerprinting walks.

By “fingerprint” I mean biometric id, but I prefer the old-school word.

[mlo]

It's duck season!

[dforest]

I think you are a total nutjob.

[BIGLOOK]

(c) The fee for each application for registration shall be established by rule adopted pursuant to chapter 91. [L 1982, c 182, §1]

[Seizethecarp]

Yes, after the first letter in each name the slant looks similar, but that is a standard cursive slant, I would think. The little “n” looks similar also, but being taught the same version of cursive in the same era would account for that. The “8” for August is made with a continuous figure 8 stroke in the first signature while it is made with two little “o” strokes, one on top of the other in the second.

A further observation on the misalignment of 338-17.8 indicating that it was added on a separate insertion of the paper is that it doesn’t align with the preceding typing of “HRS”. This might mean that originally there was a different HRS (statute)noted on the document, most likely the one in effect when the first entry was made in field 23.

With the new 1982 statute, the original statute might have been whited out back to just to the right of “HRS”. Then with the paper reinserted and misaligned the new 1982 statute 338-17.8 might have been typed in. Later (from minutes to years) when it was decided that a reason needed to be noted, the document is reinserted and further misaligned to note “per grandmother.”