Posted on 10/02/2009 3:35:27 PM PDT by MissTickly
President Obama's original birth certificate was "record in accordance with state policies and procedures," but his vital records were "maintained on file."
Oct,31, 2008: “...Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures..."
July 27, 2009: "“I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, Director of the Hawai‛i State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawai‘i State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawai‘i and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago.”
July 27, 2009, I asked this question of the Hawaiian DoH: "Is the Director of Health for the State of Hawai'i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, able to state they have verified that the Hawai'i State Department of Health has President Barack Obama's AMENDED original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures."
A careful parsing of words seems necessary because one COLB can say this: "Filed by Registrar" While another can say this: "Accepted by Registrar" Despite what you read online, or see presented by anonymous people that you've never met and you don't know-Hawaii must explain what this means. It's a procedural question that I cannot get an answer to. Why?
The last I communicated to Dr. Fukino, on October 1st, I wrote her the following, and she has not responded to correct any mischaracterizations. Please take note of that:
Dr. Fukino--
Per your press release statement on July 27, 2009, are you telling us that, in part, you saw "vital records" that include some kind of a representation of a stated "filed" and threfore pending application for an amended/corrected Birth Certificate (it was on file, not on record) and evidence filed to support an amendment/correction, but that evidence was still pending approval on July 27, 2009? I am sorry for the characterizations I give in lieu of knowing the legal jargon. Please correct me if I have mischaracterized anything.
I am finally realizing I really need to understand what 'on file' and 'filed with the registrar' means compared to "accepted by registrar" and "on record." Can you help me understand or direct me to one of your staff for explanation? If you don't already know--a woman has presented her own "filed with registrar" type COLB that she asserta represents a normal, indexed-at-birth, run of the mill Hawaiian birth certificate to natural parents with all information in pristine, original condition.
Is that possible? Should a record like I just described typically say "Accepted by Registrar?"
I have requested from the AG library archive, the opinion letter that I believe sets out the procedures for filing an application for an amended birth certificate. But I have not received it yet. If the DoH is able to provide a copy--please do.
If you meant for people to understand you in July, and if I am understanding things correctly without having the necessary AG letter. Woman, I seriously underestimated you. I want people like you working for government.
I don't know what you can answer that I just asked, if anything. But, if you can correct any mischaracterizations about policy and procedure--please do.
I am giving pause to all of this. You have been very candid, I believe. I just was too blind to see that you put it all out there for anyone paying attention. You've been as fair as can be to BOTH sides of this issue from what I can discern.
Thank you. T.
*
And I brought my question from July 27, 2009 full circle:
Aloha Dr. Fukino,
Please use THIS version of my questions. So very sorry--I am struggling with the difference between the words "on file" and "on record." I am going to go with "on record." I realize I might have to resubmit at some point with the "on file" language.
If you would please answer the following questions for me per your statement on July 27, 2009:
“I, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, Director of the Hawai‛i State Department of Health, have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawai‘i State Department of Health verifying Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawai‘i and is a natural-born American citizen. I have nothing further to add to this statement or my original statement issued in October 2008 over eight months ago.”
On July 27, 2009 per your issued statement, did you personally verify that the "vital records" you saw were NOT maintained on record in accordance with state policies and procedures?
On July 27, 2009 per your issued statement, did the Registrar of Vital Statistics personally see and verify that the "vital records" you saw were NOT maintained on record in accordance with state policies and procedures?
Thank you for your continued patience on this issue. If you would please answer the two questions above separately--that would be ideal. I am afraid that a blending of the answers will muddy your efforts to be forthcoming with the public. If you have already been forthcoming--that effort should be recognized and not distorted.
Sincerely, T.
*
CONCLUSIONS? Was the President's Natural Born Citizenship verified with a long form birth certificate, an application to amend his birth place and insufficient pending evidence of that amendment? On July 28th, did Congress sell us out with a Resolution that declared that President Obama was born in Hawaii on August 4, 1961?
Did Congress provide the 'evidence' to amend the President's Birth Place.
Get answers from Hawaii. If need be, get answers from Congress.
Thanks for letting me post here FR.=)
I think that was one of the things Barry (bill ayers) was pondering in his book. Questions that he didn’t want to ask.
I can’t believe (I guess I can) that no one in the msm has the gonads to ask him how come his mama was taking classes in Washington with Barry, when daddy was in HI, yet Barry claims they were living as one happy threesome in HI, when the evidence shows that wasn’t the case.
In a trailer down by the river!
The meaning of “natural born” was commonly understood when the Constitution was written. If the word “blue” had been written into the Constitution would you also want a definition of the exactness found in a graduate level physics book also included?
If our Founding Fathers were to have written the Constitution to the exactness that you expect regarding “natural born” and every other word, term, phrase, and sentence, the Constitution would be the size of our IRS code.
Ultimately, our success as a republic does not and will not depend on “definitions” in the Constitution or any other law. We, as a society, can NOT write enough laws or define them precisely enough to corral evil. Evil will find a way to leak through the most carefully crafted laws.
Whether or not our experiment in self-rule succeeds depends upon our **HONOR**, character, honesty, and ( ultimately) fear of the Lord.
Obama and his minions are not honorable.
An honest man would have been HONORED to promptly provide **all** documentation regarding his natural born status.
An honest man would have been **HONORED** to immediately prove to the troops in his command, and to the American people, that he is indeed qualified under the Constitution to be the president and the Commander in Chief.
The bigger question, What River?
“FREE THE LONG FORM!”
“Thanks for your perseverance.”
Then I ask you all to find out what these simple terms mean, ASK HAWAII. It could cast MUCH doubt on the veracity of his Vital Records used to verify he was born in Hawaii and a NBC.
Please help find out what “Filed by Registrar” means a COLB.
Please find out what “maintained on filed means.”
Conversely, ask them what “on record” means with both the DoH and the Registrar.
And what “Accepted by State Registrar” means on a COLB.
I actually thought that post last month was a riot. That is why implored her to hang around.
LOL
I gotta go look at that again. It was to funny.
There ya go, Barry isn’t an “honest man”.
Pray for Judge Carter. I think that at the end of the day we will need a good judge to issue a court order or two, for Hawaii vital records, college records, and whatever else might shed light on Mr. Soetoro’s constitutional qualifications. I hope Monday doesn’t disappoint!
I don’t think that I would get a flu shot if I were him.
I can’t stress this enough.
Will you please help me do this? There is no privacy involved in getting these answers and those answers will help us read BHO’s COLB AND Fukino’s 7/27/09 statement.
“Then I ask you all to find out what these simple terms mean, ASK HAWAII. It could cast MUCH doubt on the veracity of his Vital Records used to verify he was born in Hawaii and a NBC.
Please help find out what “Filed by Registrar” means a COLB.
Please find out what “maintained on file” means.
Conversely, ask them what “on record” means with both the DoH and the Registrar.
And what “Accepted by State Registrar” means on a COLB.”
“I actually thought that post last month was a riot. . . .”
Indeed! By the way, speaking of riots, I wonder what nightfall in Chicago has wrought.
Should you carefully read the Constitutional requirements wrt the Presidency you will note that they allowed those NOT natural born citizens to become president. Those who came into the country 14 years or more BEFORE the ratification were also eligible. Only after that generation died out did the “natural born requirement” become operative. Alexander Hamilton was eligible under the phrasing discussed and he was a member of the Committee on Style at the Convention which determined the wording of the document.
“Blue” has nothing to do with this issue and I merely pointed out that it is incorrect to believe that there was any definition within the Constitution defining the phrase “natural born”. Nor within the most definitive commentary the Federalist Papers mainly the work of Hamilton.
I certainly have no argument with you regarding the dishonorable nature of Urkle and his followers but it has been that way for two hundred years the length of time the Dmeocrat Party has existed.
And I am not so sure that birth place couldn’t have been left blank at birth. I think it could if there was no proof offered on the originated BC. That info would simply be blank until enough proof was submitted. He still deserved a BC even if they didn’t have or offer any proof of where he was born.
Is it a requirement that ALL info be filled in on a long form BC? Probably not. And a COLB generated from one like that wouldn’t reflect a birth place either, BUT, it would also say “Accepted by State Registrar.”
You see?
BTT
If your reasoning were applied to every word, term, phrase, sentence, and paragraph of our Constitution it would be the size of the IRS code!
No,...Ultimately, whether our experiment succeeds depends on our honest good character and fear of the Lord.
It is self evident that our Founding Fathers believed that the term “natural born” had a commonly understood definition among the people and did not need an exacting definition.
It is also self-evident that Obama is not a man of honest goodwill who fears the Lord. If he were, he would have been **HONORED** to promptly provide all documentation related to his natural born status.
re: “natural born”:
As you know, the framers were precise when they specified the qualifications for Senators and Representatives as to age, residency and citizenship.
When they specified the citizenship requirement for the President and Vice President they went an extra step and added the qualification “natural born”; i.e., they specified something more than mere citizenship. One would think that additional requirement can only be discarded by constitutional amendment, not by case law or statute.
That leaves us trying to find in the 14th Amendment the intent, expressed in clear language, to define “natural born”.
If there is none, we can conclude the framer intended something more than mere citizenship is required for the Oval Office.
Conemporaneous documents reveal what that “something” was.
“Natural born” was a term which came from the English legal system and referred to subjects of the King. In point of fact, the explication of the Constitution has taken on immense importantance and every lacuna of doubt has required the expertise of the legal system ending up in most cases before the Supreme Court.
By your reasoning only “Godliness” is important something rejected by the Founders in writing our Constitution.
btt
British Nationality Act of 1948 (Part II, Section 5): Subject to the provisions of this section, a person born after the commencement of this Act shall be a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by descent if his father is a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies at the time of the birth.
Bottom Line according to this is Obama is a British Citizen from his Fathers Citizenship.
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