Posted on 09/16/2009 8:55:30 AM PDT by taxcontrol
I'm looking at my electrical bill and was wondering if it might be worthwhile for me to investigate either solar or natural gas co-generation systems to reduce the monthly bill. Are there any freepers who have walked this path and can give advice?
I live in Colorado where NG is locally produced and relatively cheap and I get 6 hrs of sunlight per day on average.
Solar water heater will pay for itself in ~5 years. Solar pv panels will never recoup costs.
No solar panels or co-gen facilities but I DO own about 30 operable internal combustion engines.
Does that help?
I use solar panels at my mountain cabin in central Utah. They power 12v lights and an inverter. Golf cart batteries store the energy. Works great! You can build a system at any level you like to augment or totally replace the power company. There are a number of companies you can find. Google is your friend.
Ain’t worth your time. You will still need to have the natural gas and perhaps even a generator ( if you don’t want electricity off the grid).
Look if solar or co generation were actually viable it wouldn’t need tax incentives and massive upfront investment to use. Trust me in California where they have been pushing solar for years it is good for the following -— heating water. That’s it/ It will save on your hot water costs. FIgure 15-20k for initial investment and installation. Up keep and replacement depends so much on local weather conditions ( and a hard freeze can ruin some nice solar panels easy). You have to figure in the cost of storage and replacement of source when your batteries are dead and the sun sin’t providing what you want ( cloudy days night hours etc). Use wood to heat your home, wear layers of clothing, be sure insulation is good. That will be less expensive and prove more effective
You'd probably be better off taking the $$$ and putting it in a 7% yield bond fund.
The only way PV makes sense is if you just don’t have access to the grid or you get a big wonkin’ incentive from the state or your utility.
There you go just another grand city in the making. 12 v batteries -—— hahahhahahahhaha
http://www.enphaseenergy.com/downloads/8261_Datasheet_24_32.pdf
These look to be technologically interesting, but I have no direct experience.
In general, going photovoltaic is for other purposes than economy. I't be cheaper to build a bunch of LED light fixtures, get energy efficient appliances and don't use them too much.
Cost is easy. First, figure out the total cost of installing the systems. Second, add the cost of NG per month. Third, figure out how much energy costs you will save and be very conservative here. Overestimate and it will cost you dearly. Fourth, figure out how many years it will take to pay for itself. Fifth, how long will the equipment last? Will you have to replace the panels after 8-10 years? What about maintenance costs?
Once you figure all this up, you will most likely find that the ROI (return on investment) is negative. Like others said, get windows with better insulation and make sure your doors are sealed well.
A gas generator (note to post number 5, Wayne, you're only a couple of engines ahead of me) makes noise and eventually runs out of gas...not real good in an urban setting and at least irritating in a more rural one.
A solar/battery or other system would be of value outside of simple dollars and cents.
Please keep up this discussion because it's got broader value.
PS: considering the investment - would not that money be considered an improvement and have an impact on taxes when the house is sold?
the panels were expensive
they malfunctioned regularly requiring expensive maintenance calls (by companies constantly changing names, equipment producers, technicians, and going out of business)
luckily we didn't ’ have to replace the roof during our time-
unlucky buyer after us had to deal with that expense which would require removing and reinstalling the solar panels
frisky teenage yoots throwing stones broke our solar panels. twice. insurance claims with $500 deductibles both times
the industry is growing so fast (thanks to goobmint grants) our equipment became “obsolescent” and almost impossible to repair within 5 years- forget about recouping your cost
my suggestion fuggedabout it unless you want to feel righteous about being “green”
We lived next door to a family that installed solar panels on their roof (two-story house). We waited for it to come tumbling down into our pool with a major windstorm, but we were wrong - it came down into their own front yard.
Next thing to do is get an accurate assessment of what you actually use, and when you use it. That is more difficult than you might expect.
/johnny
My son is in the power genration business. His company continually looks at so-called “alternative power sources” (solar, wind, tide etc.) in terms of whether they make economic sense.
Basically, here’s what he says:
1. Alternative power sources cost many times more than fossil fuel power.
2. For alternative power sources to even step onto the power generation playing field they must be subsidized by the taxpayer.
3. In most cases people who purchase an alternative power source will never get their money back. There is a way to feed your excess power back into the “grid” and be paid for it. Jury is out as to its cost effectiveness in the long run.
4. Alternative power will only account for 2-5% of the average home’s electrical needs. And it is another system that must be maintained.
5. Alternative power relies on unpredictable forces to generate power. Solar requires mostly cloudless sky. Wind requires wind. Tides vary with time of year and day to day ocean conditions. Ergo, alternative power requires batteries to store energy for the proverbial rainy day. Batteries cost money, they are environmentally unfriendly, they wear out and they must be replaced.
As my son says, if it makes you FEEL good to go green, and your willing to pay for it, go for it.
/johnny
Something that might be worth considering is an ammonia absorption refrigerator.
Fridge compressors draw quite a bit of power. AA fridges would run on natural gas and/or propane.
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