It's Pat.
A lot of people say, "Who's he?
Or she?"
A ma'am or a sir,
Accept him or her
For whatever it might be!
It's time for androgyny.
That's just Pat!
Posted on 09/10/2009 2:22:19 PM PDT by Perdogg
Tests show that controversial runner Caster Semenya is a woman ...and a man!
The 18-year-old South African champ has no womb or ovaries and her testosterone levels are more than three times higher than those of a normal female, according to reports.
The tests, ordered by The International Association of Athletics Federations after Semenya's 800-meter victory in the World Championships, determined she's a hermaphrodite - having both male and female organs.
(Excerpt) Read more at nydailynews.com ...
Women also rely upon (lower) levels of testosterone to build muscle in response to exercise.
Androgen resistant XY females are infertile, below average intelligence, have no secondary body hair, and have abnormally large breasts.
I agree with you, but I think that our fellow FReepers simply do not understand this. It is all very well described in J. Euginedes’ Middlesex, but if I hadn’t read it, it would’ve been incomprehensible to me as well. That said, hermaphrodites don’t menstruate and Caster most assuredly participated in this fraud.
But that is women with a “syndrome” and would not be used to determine what was “normal” testosterone levels for a woman.
It’s not that simple.
I feel bad for her medical circumstances but I wonder if she and her training team tried to use this set of circumstances to gain an unfair advantage. If that is true, I have nothing but disdain for their actions.
While it may ultimately be hormone related, all sorts of unhealthy things happen when women athletes drop below about 16% body fat because their ovaries stop producing estrogen and they stop menstruating (their body fat should be around 22% or even higher). Here is an interesting chart and note how much lower the athletic and "essential fat" ratios are for men than women (the ranges don't overlap at the same level). When women stop menstruating, they can start developing menopause symptoms, including osteoporosis. That, and the fact that women have several times the number of knee injuries as men, are reasons why telling women that they are just like men is not doing them any favors.
And yes, giving testosterone to a woman will not allow her to compete with Olympic caliber athletic men; but it would sure as heck give her an advantage over other women athletes.
Absolutely. My point was simply that it's not all about the testosterone. Other factors are at play. And that's why I said that for competition purposes, a "Y" chromosome or testicles should make an athlete "male", even if they are female in a social context.
I did a lot of research on this to counter some left wing people who insisted that all of the physiological performance differences between men and women are cultural or aren't very significant. Heck, some were even arguing that testosterone had no impact on muscle building or behavior. It's not that hard to prove that the differences aren't cultural and the strength differences are fairly huge because of identifiable reasons. Doesn't persuade the true believers, though.
Another question. Will Lifetime or Bravo claim the movie rights?
Yep, a woman's body “knows” to not get pregnant if she doesn't have the fat to support a baby; so many high level women athletes do stop menstruating.
Nope, it is not “all” about the testosterone, any more than it is “all” about naturally produced steroids. But allowing someone who has that high of testosterone and is ambiguously sexed to compete as a female is as patently unfair as allowing someone to dope themselves with steroids but not allowing it for the other competitors.
Your posts demonstrate what I enjoy about FR- humor, information, knowledge, and opinion. I enjoyed reading and learning. I had always just assumed that there was a vas deferens between boys and girls...
What’s not that simple? Yes, there are some unusual exceptions (e.g., chimeras/mosaics) where a person could have both “XX” and “XY” cells but most people either have a “Y” chromosome or they don’t, regardless if it’s paired with one or more X chromosomes (or the person has only one X, in the case of Turner’s Syndrome). In the case of a chimera, the testicle test would be a good alternative (e.g., if they have a male leg or arm but are otherwise female, then I’d say “female”). As for the external genitals and social sex classification, if the person is truly a mix or unclassifiable, I’d take that on a case-by-case basis and suggest that they should pick one or the other. Am I missing an option here?
Yes, and you'd be amazed at how many otherwise reasonably intelligent and college educated people believe it because their professors have insisted it was true. Television shows that feature waifs beating up brutes also don't help. They don't even seem to get it when I point out why athletes in combat sports and other strength-related sports are separated into weight categories for a reason.
I agree with everything you posted. I feel for her and her family. There a lot of people carrying extra weight in the world from physical and mental disabilities. To add to that weight is the mark of of someones own deficiencies.
No, you are not missing an option. What is not that simple is making a determination based on ambiguous external genitalia. You said, “I don’t want a person with a penis in the bathroom with little girls or a person with female genitals in the bathroom with little boys.” I say making that determination is not that simple. It is possible to look at a baby and say, “Aw, this little girls genitals are swollen from the stress of birth, maternal hormones, etc.” It is only as she gets older that things become complicated. Meanwhile, she’s been socialized as a girl. She ought to be allowed to use a women’s bathroom.
I know. Who do they think they’re kidding?
It's Pat.
A lot of people say, "Who's he?
Or she?"
A ma'am or a sir,
Accept him or her
For whatever it might be!
It's time for androgyny.
That's just Pat!
If you really want to tweak their melons tell them that men are smarter than women on average also.
It is completely 100% true, but once you correct for size - women are smarter. (but don't tell them that!)
I am 6'2” and 200 lbs and score embarrassingly high on tests. Not as many 6'2” and 200 lb women with equivalent sized heads out there.
And yes, boys and girls- size does matter.
Punny!
How sad for her/him/them. Not her/his/their fault she/he/they were born that way. Hope they can come to a good conclusion for him/her.
Well, there’s a surprise, didn’t see that coming . . .
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